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Topic: Phil Fish opens his mouth... Again.

Posts 21 to 40 of 76

Geonjaha

Sleepingmudkip wrote:

But the thing is i feel like the publisher/developers should get a small cut from the revenue cause I know alot of people who didnt buy The Last Of Us cause they watch PewDiePie play through and people might not buy Xenoblades Cronicals X cause they watched a play through or something

Yeah, except PewDiePie could play any game and still get millions of views. So the choice becomes, do you want millions of people to see your game and possibly buy it? Because if not there are plenty of other games for him and anyone else to play. He wont keep playing yours if you're taking a substantial cut of the revenue.

Geonjaha

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Octane

There's no right answer to this question. Some people say that these videos will create more revenue, others claim that companies would be better off taking revenue from the videos themselves. Until I've seen an actual research that can show that ''let's plays''/walkthroughs actually contribute something to the company, I will take the safe side and argue that it's the developer's property, just as a movie is the property of the film studio. I think a review or bits of gameplay should be enough to convince you to buy the game, you don't watch an entire movie online before you go see it at the movie theater. I'm not against let's plays or walkthroughs, but it's a hobby, not a job. If you really like making these videos, it shouldn't matter whether you make money from it or not.

Completely off topic, Fez is an absolutely amazing game.

Edited on by Octane

Octane

8BitSamurai

So, it seems Phil Fish will become the new master of clickbait, next to Michael Pachter

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Dave24

He's alive? I hoped he faded into obscurity with his morronic approach. Sadly, he's back, which doesn't suprise me. As one smart man said, they always come back.

Dave24

Zizzy

Geonjaha wrote:

Games require input from the player; movies and TV don't. Its very obvious that for the most part the YouTubers who actually make money out of making Lets Plays do so because of their audience, not the game. You cant just do a Lets Play on YouTube and automatically make money unless you're already an established channel. Another big problem with it is that the YouTube video claiming system claims all videos which contain any content related to that claim. If someone is reviewing a game and puts a little bit of gameplay in the background just as a visual guide, do the developers deserve all the money for that video? If there is a 3 hour podcast that runs a 2 minute Nintendo ad to talk about it, do Nintendo deserve the revenue for that whole 3 hours (Yes this happened)? It doesn't matter what they deserve in those cases because they get it all as soon as they make the claim.

Even if the company thinks it is justified, claiming videos just means that YouTubers will play and advertise other games. YouTubers who actually get substantial numbers of views (and as such, revenue) don't make videos that will get claimed because they cant afford to. Claiming Videos simply means that in the long run people stop making good videos about your game, and the company loses advertising and sales.

tl:dr - Developers not getting a cut of YouTube video money is justified in my eyes, and even if it wasn't; claiming videos is only detrimental to the company in the long run anyway.

A lot of what I've said mirrors what's mentioned in the video @Kodeen posted, so watch that if you want a stronger argument on the matter.

Very well put. As much as I don't agree with what Fish is trying to accomplish, it follows copyright law. There's a problem with making exceptions in law, it's just not fair. What needs to be done is a revamping (or demolishing) of copyright laws altogether. So one developer isn't getting away with something that another developer can't (by developer, I mean developer of any entertainment medium). Also, I do see how it might be different for Let's Play videos, or game videos at all, considering most people will have a different gaming experience when/if they choose to play the game. What Fish is doing is seeking "potentially lost" profits, which is what record labels do when they remove audio from videos. Or what production companies do when they remove videos from the web. It's wrong to claim something is yours when it doesn't even exist yet, and that's why I hate copyright laws.

And in my opinion, PewDiePie can do whatever the hell he wants. He does a lot of charity work, so anyone saying he's stealing from people at all is just ignorant or making uneducated opinions.

Edited on by Zizzy

Zizzy

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Chrono_Cross

WaveBoy wrote:

Well it's working, he's getting the publicity, clicks and hits he wanted. guess it pays off being an egotistical headed' delusional and insulting whack job of a developer who thinks he's GOD after creating one bloody game. He's got no class, and i can't take him seriously as a developer. Just another quirky bearded Indie hipster that sh**s all over the good stuff.

He lost my respect the moment he said that japanese games suck now, RIGHT in front of a japanese developer at some gaming conference. I feel the complete opposite, western games for the most part are what's really leaving a nasty stain in the gaming scene.

You have no idea what you're talking about, WaveBoy.

Do your research, learn from it, and develop a new opinion. Your ignorance is unbearable, honestly.

Retro_on_theGo wrote:

I really really don't care about anything this guy says. I just enjoyed Fez and left it that.

+100!

Edited on by Chrono_Cross

Just for you.
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Kaze_Memaryu

I guess I'm just repeating myself, but LP'ers deserve the money from ads even less than the game developers. In fact, they deserve nothing at all. Not because they're doing something bad, but because they want compensation for a hobby. That's pretty arrogant, and by extension, I would actually like to see Google change the ad revenue policies accordingly, just to see how many "great" LP'ers would stop going after their hobby for a lack of money.

And in a certain sense, it's in Fish's absolute right to demand a cut from the profit when it stems from his material, which it does. Every Let's Player is found through the games he/she plays, and if developers don't want strangers to profit from their source material without permission, they deserve a good cut of the revenue as compensation, at the very least. So Fish is making a fully valid demand, even if he isn't sympathetic about it.

Get jobs, get money, get games. I don't see how any LP'er can even call it their money. Every hobby needs expenses and work to be fun, and Let's Play's are not even slightly different. So they should stop whining or face the wrath of my AdBlock.

Edited on by Kaze_Memaryu

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8BitSamurai

Kaze_Memaryu wrote:

I guess I'm just repeating myself, but LP'ers deserve the money from ads even less than the game developers. In fact, they deserve nothing at all. Not because they're doing something bad, but because they want compensation for a hobby. That's pretty arrogant, and by extension, I would actually like to see Google change the ad revenue policies accordingly, just to see how many "great" LP'ers would stop going after their hobby for a lack of money.

So then nobody should be able to make money from their hobbies?

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Nintendo_Ninja

He doesn't make it easy for other people to like him, does he? People like him need to watch what they say and not have bratty public outbursts like that.

Nintendo ID Network: Nintendo_Ninja
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unrandomsam

Nintendo_Ninja wrote:

He doesn't make it easy for other people to like him, does he? People like him need to watch what they say and not have bratty public outbursts like that.

Doesn't really matter what he does at this point he has won at life and earned the ability to retire at whatever age he is..

“30fps Is Not a Good Artistic Decision, It's a Failure”
Freedom of the press is for those who happen to own one.

SubBronze

Phil Fish's idiotic comments over the years have done way more damage for his business and sales for Fez than a million hours of YouTube footage ever could. I was actually going to buy Fez in the Steam sale or on PSN until I heard this news yesterday, and now I won't.

YouTube and other forms of content sharing are one of (if not the) main reasons that indie games have become so popular. Just look at Minecraft, FTL, Day Z, or just about any other popular indie game that exists. Their success has been massive due to the people sharing the game on YouTube. How popular would Minecraft if Notch disallowed monetisation on Minecraft videos, or videos all together? Not at all, you most likely would have never heard of it. Same for Fez, but I guess Phil simply can't see that.

Edited on by SubBronze

SteamID: bulby1994

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Geonjaha

I see that one of the biggest gripes with YouTubers making money off their gaming videos is that some people don't see it as 'a real job'.
@Octane - The line between what's a hobby and what's a job comes when that person is actually doing it to support themselves. You can look at YouTube as a place for silly Lets Plays or videos about cute animals, but the fact remains that many people make their livelihoods off of their videos, and put effort in to do that.

@Kaze_Memaryu - You do realise that there's a reason Google pays YouTubers to make content right? It means that people put time and effort into making videos because they can afford to. Whether you like it or not it there are millions of people willing to watch this stuff to actually make it profitable. Millions of people want to watch this stuff, and Google want them to, and are paying people because it actually incentivises quality content.

It's always funny to see when people question someone's right to their earnings because what they are doing isn't 'a real job' in their own eyes. I despise Lets Play content for the most part, and cant stand PewDiePie, but that doesn't mean I'm arrogant enough to believe that no one else wants to, and that he and everyone else on YouTube should stop being payed just because I don't believe they should. Stop being jealous of people that have managed to do what they love for a living, and maybe have a go at it yourself if you think its so easy.

Edited on by Geonjaha

Geonjaha

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Zizzy

Bulbousaur wrote:

Phil Fish's idiotic comments over the years have done way more damage for his business and sales for Fez than a million hours of YouTube footage ever could. I was actually going to buy Fez in the Steam sale or on PSN until I heard this news yesterday, and now I won't.

Imagine if Phil said that to a friend in real life, rather than on his Twitter. In that paradigm, Phil would have the same opinion and desire, but you would have purchased the game. Isn't that strange?

His opinions have nothing to do with the quality of the game. All that's happening is you're missing out on a potentially fun experience for yourself. Instead of discussing why Phil's opinion differs from ours, let's discuss why Phil has this opinion: Because copyright laws exist.

People tend to replace a decent argument with a stab at Phil because in all honesty, they have no opinion or care for laws, just the repercussions of them.

Edited on by Zizzy

Zizzy

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8BitSamurai

Zizzy wrote:

His opinions have nothing to do with the quality of the game. All that's happening is you're missing out on a potentially fun experience for yourself.

Unless you don't want to support Phil Fish, who keeps making these idiotic comments. In that case, I'll happily join @Bulbousaur

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Zizzy

8BitSamurai wrote:

Unless you don't want to support Phil Fish, who keeps making these idiotic comments. In that case, I'll happily join @Bulbousaur

Phil makes money whether you guys buy the game or not (or even myself), so supporting him isn't really up to us unless we as the entire gaming community boycott him. If I can have fun while he continues to make his money, I'm going to. I spend my energy and focus on my life, not Phil Fish's life. I wish other people would do the same, because then we wouldn't even be talking about Fish.

Now I feel dirty for discussing this so much...must cleanse...

Zizzy

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8BitSamurai

Zizzy wrote:

8BitSamurai wrote:

Unless you don't want to support Phil Fish, who keeps making these idiotic comments. In that case, I'll happily join @Bulbousaur

Phil makes money whether you guys buy the game or not (or even myself), so supporting him isn't really up to us unless we as the entire gaming community boycott him.

So? I'm sick of him, so I'm sure not going to help.

I'm out of here too, I feel guilty for even giving any attention to Fish.

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unrandomsam

They haven't done him any harm at all. For every person who thinks like you there will be more people who think - who is Phil Fish what did he make ? Oh he made Fez it looks good and its on sale. I will get it.

I heard of Fez from indie game the movie and also by looking for the best stuff on XBLA on review comparison sites. (With a view to getting them when they were ported). In that film they are all annoying other than the creator of Braid.

If I was in his position I would allow people to what they want other than put ad's beside it. (Wouldn't ask for any kind of cut just blanket disallow).

“30fps Is Not a Good Artistic Decision, It's a Failure”
Freedom of the press is for those who happen to own one.

Dezzy

I do quite like Fez. Not as much as some people did. But it was a pretty neat game.

That said, Phil Fish is one the most unpleasant people I've ever come across in writing. Who knows, maybe he's a nice guy if you know him in real life and he just falls into that whole 'this is just how people act online' thing. We, as a species, do have serious empathy issues when the people we're communicating with are just disembodied virtual ghosts.

It's quite clear what's happening here though. When devs are small and starting out, they need to be nice to as many people as possible in order to make connections and get as much attention on their game. In the first month of release for Fez, he wouldn't dare say such a thing. He'd take absolutely any kind of exposure he could find. Nor would he dare tell games journalists, albeit seemingly annoying journalists, to go and kill themselves.
Fast forward 2 years. Fez has sold something like 1.5million copies. He's probably made enough money so that he never has to work again. So what happens? Yep, the attitude changes.

It's a completely different scenario to the Nintendo one. Nintendo have never needed the grassroots support. They created their position without any help from youtubers and they'll always be on the front page, no matter what. How many people bought Fez because of exposure on youtube? I know myself and at least 2 other friends were persuaded by a video podcast by Elder Geek (great youtube channel, check them out).

Personally, I don't care about the legality. This is about the morality. Phil Fish doesn't have any. He's a cynical opportunist who rationalises anything for his own benefit. We, as a community should fight for the right of people who spend their time making these gaming videos. It's not just a hobby that they happen to monetize. They have to put an insane amount of time into it before they get enough viewers to make money out of it.

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

Kaze_Memaryu

@Geonjaha I'm well aware of Google's hands in that, but not for a single moment do they do so to improve video quality - it's simply profit for them, and by giving uploaders a cut, they encourage them to pester viewers with ads in the first place. Since LP's are a trend by now, loads and utter overloads of amateurs upload their half-baked videos of them dying countless times at the same spot and call it "Let's Play".

Also, I couldn't care less how many people enjoy Let's Plays. That has no bearing on my opinion. I'm against monetized Let's Plays, that's all. And while I acknowledge that it takes dedication to make a good one, that's the nature of a hobby. It can be extensive, costly, and even exhausting. But these Let's Players do this all on their own accord, without anybody having asked them to do so. And now they want - no, they expect - money for presenting others' material as the core of their videos? That's some Level A hypocrisy right there. And I'm definitely not supporting it.
If anything, I'm only supporting adblocking. Call it arrogant all you want, that doesn't change that LP'ers make money out of their free time, and I don't see why I - or anyone, for that matter - should be forced to support that. I neither support greedy Let's Players nor greedy Google in this, and not only is it in my full right to deny them any potential profit out of my data (which is collected through all these ads), it's also within my means and methods to do so.

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