Just a reminder that anything 'exclusive' to XBOne or XBOneX is available on PC because of that whole Windows 10 thingy a while back.
As someone who has been a PC/Nintendo Gamer for over a year (and I'm not leaving XBX in the dark here, my friend has one and I've had a fiddle with it.) I can definitely recommend PC. My PC is Custom Built, which is a tad pricier, but has no complications in setup bar Windows setup. My PC is quite modest graphics-wise (GTX 960) but runs nearly all my games at 60fps with no issues. It's also not as expensive as people make it out to be, if you're not bothered about 4K, VR or going above 60fps on AAA games, the most you would ever 'need' is around 400 euro. Also, while I understand you're looking into these options for a few select titles, it has to be noted that the library on PC is vast, and you'll probably discover some fantastic new games and exclusives you'd never get on console (Also Steam Sales). It's also the best available option for online multiplayer by a mile, nothing can touch PC in that regard. Lastly, there's the fact that it's a computer, and just does things other than vidja games.
As for XBX, it's a better option for local multiplayer, you can get Physical Copies of games much more easily (Although keep in mind this is at a cost, it's ungodly expensive compared to PC), and it's easier to move if you feel like doing so. That's all I can really give XBX, it's slightly more familiar to console users, but trust me, once you're over that first hurdle with PC, it's hard to go back.
@ThanosReXXX
The video was about the state of building a gaming PC as of late 2017 CD previous years and where it could be. So most of the points don't apply to this discussion about PC vs consoles. There are valid arguments either way but I don't think things like the cost of gsync are negatives for PC gaming
Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"
@skywake Hey man, don't shoot the messenger. I didn't make the video, so I obviously also didn't come up with the title, but it really does say it all. You may not think they're (applicable) negatives personally, but this guy's videos are always professional and well researched, so he's not talking out of his back end, meaning all 4 reasons are valid (which in all honesty does make me wonder why his pro PC video was so weak/less conclusive, but that's beside the point), and if you'd wish to consider PC gaming, then these apply, simple as that.
By the way: no offense and you probably mean well, but this is where I step out of this useless discussion. I just wanted to give my friend @NEStalgia my two cents on why he should not want to go the PC route, I did not come here to get caught up in a yes/no battle. My point of view is clear, the points I brought up are all valid, and I supported them with informative, to the point videos, that speak for themselves. I have little need or taste for my views being challenged or questioned. It isn't called a personal point of view for nothing...
And FYI: I actually have a gaming PC, but I STILL get more enjoyment out of my consoles, whether my PC is more powerful or not.
'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'
@ThanosReXXX
It wasn't a personal opinion when I said those negatives shouldn't count. I agreed with his points. I was just saying that things like gsync is expensive aren't factors when deciding between xbone and PC. Simply because they aren't options outside of PC gaming.
If anything him saying thing like it being easier to build a PC now apply more in this discussion than any of his negative points did....
Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"
@skywake No, but they ARE applicable when you choose PC gaming. I don't understand what's not to understand about that. It is irrelevant if these options are available on consoles or not. They are factors when you choose PC, and as such, they should be taken into account, no discussion possible.
And now I have done exactly that which I didn't want to do, because I was done with this discussion. So, stay stubborn or whatever, I know I'm right and that's really all that matters.
I genuinely wish you a good day, but now I'm really done here.
'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'
@ThanosReXXX
I honestly don't understand why you're getting so worked up over this. It was a very simple point I was making. Here, let me make a point in the other direction to explain what I mean. Lets say that I argued that you shouldn't buy an XBOne because it supports UHD BluRay playback and UHD BluRays cost 25-100% more than regular BluRays. You'd rightly call it a stupid argument because clearly UHD BluRay playback is, if anything, a net positive for the XBOne as a system. You can't drop a UHD BluRay in a PS4 or Switch and getting them to run on a PC requires a specific drive (last I checked there were literally 2 on the market) and a LOT of fussing about.
It's the same deal with NVidia GSync monitors being unreasonably expensive. In a discussion about NVidia vs AMD this would be a point to bring up. In a discussion about what's crap about PC gaming right now that needs to improve it's a point worth bringing up. But expensive or not it being an option on PCs to use variable refresh rate displays is not a negative when comparing consoles to PCs. More options, however average they may be, are never a negative.
@ThanosRexxx Haha, you know I forgot you were ever in PC discussions at all! Other than talking about streaming and VR and such. As for 4k, no, I don't think I'll be diving in any time soon. I know TVs are moving along (I actually have an older RP TV I don't use too often, favoring my 1080p FP for movies and such. So we'd be talking 4k projector....and THAT is some serious money for the time being. And honestly without a screen material upgrade (using a wall for now) the resolution would be irrelevant. And that's MORE serious money. But I don't game on that.....I'm way too near-sighted for that So I use a PC monitor up close. But to make it comfy couch gaming it's mounted on a microphone boom pole I can swivel to the couch like a wannabe Dr. Evil. Problem is weight. The heaviest screen that works without tipping over is 23" and they don't make any 4k+HDR screens in that size and show no interest in doing so for now (even though 4k would be a big thrill when sitting so close to the screen, much like on phones.) I tend to buy business intended displays though....more money but they'll outlive me, and the fit and finish and handling is great for an often handled display (being gripped and swiveled often) with more recessed ports and such that suits the use case well. So I figure 4+ years before 4k+HDR is available in those. If even then.
Plus if I go PC the point is SteamLink/ShieldTV.....so 1080 is kind of the cap no matter what
Everything else you say about PC is all quite true though and the reason I've avoided it for a decade.
@subpopz Haha, there are moments I think the same The two big focuses are more graphical oomph than PS4 Pro (which lets face it, is rarely any different from PS4 Slim, VR aside.), which can be provided by both, and steam sales (and other store sales) which are only PC.
So the primary driving force I suppose is PC oriented.... But only if PC can truly be reasonably cost and time effective. A lot of you I've discussed PC with before. Some make me think PC isn't the nightmare it was ages ago. Some make me think it's even worse.
But you're not wrong, the net result will probably end up being me getting nothing new at all based on the conversation so far But it's a utilitarian exercise all the same
@Hikingguy I actually had a X360 and liked it....I probably preferred it to my PS3 at the time because it seemed to just run everything better (it was the lead platform that gen of course.) Love the controllers, hate the durability of said controllers, but X1 isn't 360. It has almost no library to speak of (Ok, Sea of Thieves looks interesting) that isn't shared with either PC or PS4. The UI is a nightmare. But it's a PC in a box retailing for less than the sum of its parts. That's appealing (I had no interest in X1 but when I saw the features and price point of the X I was a bit surprised.) Still, the steam sales...that's a huge part of the point. And I am indeed curious what XBox sales look like compared to Steam. And yeah, I'm trying to gauge where PC gaming is compared to pre-Wii (last time I built a gaming PC) era.
@Anti-Matter it's not really the way I intend to use it, because I want to use a controller on the couch instead of sitting at a desk, BUT, one thing about PC, if you're being general, is access to genres that simply don't exist on other platforms (because they require a mouse.) MOBAs, RTS, simulations (things like Civilization, Master of Orion, amusement park management sims, etc. I still can't play those with my intended setup, but those could be good reasons for PC gaming....access to whole other genres.
And as for Steam sales....I agree with you, I prefer physical (lack of physial is a big reason I left PC gaming years ago)....BUT Steam sales are a great way to try games I otherwise wouldn't have bought at full price. It's kind of a compromise between the publisher and me. I'll agree to accept not having ownership of the game and provide my own storage, if you sell it to me for 10% of the asking price That's one thing that has me really considering it (or getting games in series I know I like but I know the game doesn't really live up to standards. Maybe not the kinds of games you play, but games that interest me at times, but not enough to pay full price.
@ ALL: Thanks so much for the great discussion here, keep it coming! I've been reading, and there's far too many individual points to respond to. Lets try this: If we're going to look at the PC route what would you guys recommend buying in general to total up to "around" X1X price point, that is superior to it (in actual performance considering PC overhead) that would a be a good, solid "I got access to cheap Steam games and better performance than X1X for not much more money?" And (especially Plywood) how much in a hole would I be putting myself going forward? And is there a reasonably compact solution with adequate cooling to mount it in? (Again, keep in mind I'm not alien to PC building or building gaming PCs, I was PC only for a long time, I've just been out of the market for a long period (and have built business machines in the mean-time ) So no need to simplify. Go full speed.
Also between nVidia/AMD GPU, which is going to present the best options for streaming off-PC outside of Steam (UPlay has to be streamed too!)
@NEStalgia Haha, no problem, man. I'm not offended. And thanks for getting the ACTUAL point I was trying to make.
As for what you've mentioned now, I can add a couple of things:
First off, even though I'm not really a pro PC guy where it concerns gaming comfortably, even I can attest to building and using PC's definitely not being the nightmare that it used to be back in the day.
However, I really DO think that PC gaming is an uphill battle. Gaming PC's at the level you're looking at, are mid-range/semi-high range at best and the hardware will almost be obsolete the minute you walk out of the store with it. Consoles are built to last an entire generation, and to be closed systems, PC's simply are not, so if you're not willing to invest or tinker, then perhaps you should consider if it's REALLY your wish to go that route. Consoles are simply more easy to future-proof, and their whole environment is tailored towards that. With PC's, not so much...
Concerning AMD vs Nvidia, you might find your answer on one of these pages:
As for consoles: why you would want to consider an Xbox if you already have the Switch and a PS4 isn't really clear to me, unless you're looking for better performance in multi-platform titles, in which case the One X is definitely the only option (in the console range, obviously). And of course, even though Microsoft doesn't have as much titles as Sony, there ARE a decent number of exclusives on the Xbox, so if you want to play these, then the One X is again the only option. Oh, and of course that UHD media player, also only on Xbox One...
On a side note: I personally have no issues with the Xbox One's UI and find it VERY easy to navigate and use, so I'm curious to find out what you've come across that apparently made you dislike it.
Oh, and the Xbox One has THE best controller that was ever made. That should not be a definitive reason to choose one system over the other, but it's DEFINITELY a nice bonus...
No news yet on Ryzen2 dedicated CPU specs, but the AMD APU's coming out next month are pretty much going to be the new budget machine bang for buck parts, replacing the Pentium G4560, Ryzen 3 1200, Ryzen 5 1400, and the like. For the Ryzen 2400G in particular, at $170, that's a 4 core 8 thread chip with an iGPU on par with what a regular PS4/XB1 can manage. (Witcher 3 type of game @ 30 FPS, others less demanding at 40-60 FPS, medium settings.) Completely blows away Intel iGPU's.
The way that works is partly because AMD part performance is more dependent on RAM speed than Intel. So with 3600 MHz RAM, and over clocking both the CPU/GPU on the APU, the GPU would start at Nvidia GT 1030 level, and could potentially approach GT 1050 level, while having the CPU be comparable to Core i5-8400 levels. (Since CPU has higher base clocks of 3.6 GHz with 65w TDP, only has 300 MHz to push forwards on instead of over 1 GHz, and doesn't ever throttle down to 2.8 GHz; while the GPU starts around 1.1 GHz and can be clocked up by 500 MHz.) Overclocking software is a lot easier to use now, so while this is an odd potential use for it from a traditional standpoint, it's an interesting possibility.
More testing needs to be done, but this basically means $500 budget build PC's with a decently sized SSD is now easily possible. Since the AM4 motherboard series will be supported with new products until at least 2020, or perhaps 2021 if it remains popular, instead of ending upgrade paths with almost every generation of procs like Intel does, there's plenty of upgrade potential after initial investment. Cuts out search for overpriced GPU, while waiting for affordable and good one to release. (RAM still expensive though, so looking for good deals is imperative.)
@ThanosReXXX Last PC I built had 7 fans and sounded like a vacuum cleaner. And still froze due to overheating.
Obsolete hardware.....well I can still think of it as obsolete only AFTER the next consoles are out....devs are still constraining the games to be able to run on the consoles, so anything over the console spec is still over it. But honestly buying super duper pricy premium PC gear is ALSO obsolete as soon as you walk out with it. Used to buy $2k+ gaming builds.....it would go obsolete and suffer strings of failures. And my friends that went mid-range chugged along without any problems. Eventually I realized premium PC is a suckers game
Thanks for the links! As you said, it's about that performance edge if I'm not going the steam sale route. Though the more I evaluate I think, maybe if steam sales are the predominant force, PC is the only route....though I've seen better Xbox game sales than PS simply because they're a harder sell (physical, not digital.)
And yeah, that X1 controller is a dream! Switch pro is a close second, and I still detest Dual Shock. Steam controller is....weird. Cool but weird. Though even for PC I could use it, so it's probably not a deciding factor
@subpopz I've been through so many good and bad hdmi switches. Currently using one that's good...but out of ports! And I have my custom remote set up for it.... The HDMI switching is the best argument to buy nothing new at all
The wireless kb/mouse on a weirdly rigged lap tray.....oh man, never again! I used to do crazy setups like that! If I ever try to do it again, please mail me a straight-jacket.
@Yorumi@Plywoodstick thanks for the info. Yorumi's build seems more "familiar" including the "what is everyone so happy with AMD about" position. Plywood's info feels a little more bleeding edge....which could go well...or not. Budget maybe but the whole "this will be released next month and is what you'll really want....oh except for this....adn this....oh and I didn't think of that....and...well the leaks said this, but now that it's in the field you have to watch for that" that will inevitably occur I've been down that road enough times! It's a cool concept...but....I'd rather go mainstream rather than bleeding edge, as experience has tought me the people who go mainstream don't have many unexpected issues. And going bleeding edge does (whether it's performance edge, or total envelope edge.) I'll read over all these links a bit though!
EDIT: Also, one thing I should note is I don't overclock. Never have. I don't trust the thermal profiles....I've had bad enough results with the stock thermal profiles.
@NEStalgia Whatever your choice, definitely wait to pull the trigger for at least a few months. Bleeding edge topic yes, but it will affect the path forward for the mainstream. The landscape next year will look very different from today, so waiting for the dust to settle would be a fairly good choice to mitigate the risks of uncertainty- and there is a lot of uncertainty right now.
Edit: If no over clocking, all the more reason to go for something with around 3.4-3.6 GHz base clock. A lot of problems stem from going over 4 GHz and not knowing how to handle that speed/heat while regulating voltage properly. (Granted, Intel is using cheap TIM instead of metal solder, so higher heat comes with the territory for their stuff! ) No over clocking is also an incentive to not go with anything like Core i5-8400 (2.8 GHz) that has a low base clock.
@Yorumi I never denied you could build a PC on a moderate budget, but that doesn't make what I said any less true. If you go the PC route, you have to take into account that some parts of it will or might need replacing somewhere along the line. That could be 5 years, but that could also be 3 years or less, depending on what amount of cash you're willing to spend.
And I think you would be hard-pressed to make a PC that can do exactly what the Xbox One X can do, for the exact same price or less, and having it include ALL of the functionality that the X has, such as that built-in UHD player and Atmos Dolby.
As for the Xbox One's controller: your hands must be considerably smaller than mine then, since my hands fit comfortably around the controller without me having to strain to reach any buttons or sticks, so that's more a personal experience that you have, I suppose.
Your multi-player argument is flawed, except for the fact that it IS cheaper on PC. As for the cost on the console side: I'm not in the know about Playstation and its services, but the One X costs $499, and you can get a year's worth of Xbox Live Gold for $40 or less, so to get to the $700 - $800 range, you would have to game online for more than 5 years on the same system to get over the $700 mark, but that still wouldn't be close to $800.
'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'
@NEStalgia Indeed. Which is also why I said that a controller shouldn't be a decisive factor in whether to buy any system or not. But you got the rest of it, so good on you.
High time to drag you into another Neo Geo ACA article. Much easier discussion...
'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'
At the moment, a PC is not at all cost effective to build, thanks to cryptocurrency miners. Let's hope cryptocurrencies burn and crash forever in the not too distant future.
@ThanosReXXX Yeah, the UHD player and Atmost don't really affect me (no 4K, and a very nice, but not "state of the art decoders" stereo, or headphones) but no question X1 puts a lot into the media player where PCs these days just don't make the most practical media players (and Sony inexplicably dropped the ball.)
"As for the Xbox One's controller: your hands must be considerably smaller than mine then, "
Oh no, we're in a small hands debate now......ABANDON SHIP!
For the online prices I have to agree with Yorumi....I'd go with sticker price on the subscription. Sure if you get the sale timing right you can get it cheaper (lucked out with a PSN discount this year) but I'd take that as a plus, not a given. OTOH, Plywood, the strongest voice for PC gaming, continues to make posts making it sound every bit as unlovable as I recall.
@Plywoodstick Good advice overall....and also a reminder of more that I dislike. "Wait just a little longer, the next big thing is happening soon!" (And then takes 3 years to stabilize) Don't buy a Switch, Switch 2 is around the corner! In this case I'm in no hurry. But that concept...shudder
One issue for anything online is PSN....any time I do the speed test it shows me I have about 1.5mb upload...on a wired connection...which is quite a bit lower than any other device, even lowly Switch, shows
@YummyHappyPills In the case it's an honest question. Well, you don't 'mine' bit coins, you use your PC to verify other bit coin transactions and you get rewarded with bit coins. The process is a lot complicated than that (and quite interesting), but in a nutshell, that's it.
@Octane It was an honest question. Even though I'm a tech geek I'm more of a programmer than a hardware guy.
And yeah, I was confused why it's called "mining" and why it caused GPU market prices to literally double and triple.
As a British guy, I associated mining with...you know...strikes and Thatcher.
Imagine that. The ghost of Margaret Thatcher coming to confiscate GPUs from bitcoin miners causing the market purchasing price to skyrocket due to scarcity.
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