Topic: Nintendo and Maturity

A lot of people have been talking online about how Nintendo should start making mature games, or they should become a mature company, lose the "kiddie" image, etc. what do i think? this is my own opinion, but Nintendo's biggest weakness os their "kiddie" image itself. in the '80s, it was all about kids, that was who played games, and it worked. nowadays though, gaming has become a hobby for not just kids, but also adults, like a lot of the users here on NLife! but i feel like Nintendo's still aiming towards kids though, pretty much ignoring their adult audience with stuff they need too.

what is the definition of "Mature," though? Merriam-Webster said it like this; "Fully developed physically; full-grown."

Nintendo has had mature games on their consoles though! you all remember Majora's Mask, right? i see this game as the perfect game to talk about maturity in games. a lot of the time, people tend to associate "mature" with drugs, sex, gore, etc. but that's not what mature means though. are they mature, yes but maturity is more than that. maturity touches on death, depression, loneliness, fear, hatred, etc. which are all addressed in Majora's Mask. it's a mature masterpiece imo, for touching on all of these topics, making it a great game for older players, but it's also accessible by kids too!

now take for instance a game like Conker's Bad Fur Day, don't get me wrong, it's a great game and i love playing it, but it takes the word "mature" to another level. it's filled to the top with blood, gore, profanity, sexual references, drugs, and a lot more! a game like this, although a great one, is only accessible towards adults, and probably should be kept away from kids imo. now keep in mind both Conker and Majora's Mask were both released on the N64, a nintendo console.

so what was the point of all that? well, i hoped i got a few points across:
1.) there are multiple meanings within the meaning of "mature"
2.) nintendo is more than capable of releasing such games on their consoles
3.) the meaning of Mature is not just slapping an "M" on the ESRB box.
4.) nintendo is more than capable of producing mature games on their own.

anyways though, i don't want to come across as a "nintendo is kiddie" type guy. i love nintendo more than a lot of people i know in person, and their games have ALWAYS (generally speaking) worked out in the past. i just want to say that maybe nintendo is ignoring a part of the gaming community, and by making more games with those elements of maturity from Majora's Mask, they can attract a larger audience and lose their "kiddie" image, and instead get an "all-around" image.

but that's my two cents. what are your thoughts on Maturity in games? any games with just the right balance? any games over the line with mature content? do you stand with me or against me with my whole "nintendo and maturity" speech?

The problem is that gamers today have established the idea that if a game is rated E, then it's only for kids. But fact is, E is for " EVERYONE " meaning that it's meant for, well, EVERYONE. Kids, Adults, Teens, EVERYONE, no matter your age, you can play it. Games from Nintendo are only rated E because they lack the stuff that requires a game to rated M. Guns, blood, foul language, nudity, that sort of stuff. But just because a game lacks these things doesn't make it less fun or meant for only children. People just need to understand that.

Besides, plenty of Nintendo's games are already pretty mature and creepy, but it's done subtly and without notice so you have to think about it to truely get it.

Something like adult themed may be a better term. For instance, Saints Row 3 is loaded with immaturity. Not that there'snecessarily anything wrong with being immature outside of important life issues.

I don't play 'mature' games because they're rated M, but because it's a fun game that happens to be rated M. I make exceptions if I feel the game is disgusting, even though it may be fun. I have personal limits. And disgusting might include a variety of subjects. Even for some 'E' rated content, it can be possible to not be comfortable with certain subject matter. These are just generalized rating systems.

i'm not sure if i got that across in my original post, but i essentially meant this in some parts. it's okay for a game to be E for everyone, because then it is meant for, well, everyone! but you can also do the same with adult content too. why not have an adult game, that's perfectly accessible for children and teens too? as i've said, Majora's Mask captures many mature elements, but is still E for everyone, even though it is typically considered one of the more "hardcore" games in the series, and is more adult than any other game in the franchise. i think the ESRB is just for parents to decide whether to buy their kid a game based on violence, blood, language, etc. but in every other case, i don't see it being useful. it doesn't explain if a game really is mature, or if it's just a very graphic game.

when i say Mature, i dont mean some letter on the box, i mean if it handles important topics in a very ripe way, if that makes sense.

The problem is that the kiddie image is only there because the so-called "mature" gamers wanted to put it there.

Nintendo will never delve into those ridiculous mature motifs like drugs, sex and alcohol because Nintendo doesn't need them. The kiddie games Nintendo makes usually appeal to gamers of all ages. Take Animal Crossing for example: most of us here play it and range from 13 (or younger) to 45 or older. This is what makes Nintendo great.

Like you said, Nintendo also made games with the mature subjects like death and depression and people don't give them enough credit for doing so.

I don't think the image should be dropped because Nintendo has always historically appealed to kids the most.

Yeah, I know you were basically explaining that. I just felt like saying my thoughts in my own words because, well, I don't know, I just had really wanted to.

yes, i feel there are times and places to be immature, but also times and places to be mature, everywhere can this be applicable.

there are people out there who have and do judge nintendo for having little variety in the ways of "adult themes" as you would say. maybe not so much the ESRB rating, more the subjects they tackle. i think if nintendo came out with games that are both fun AND healthy in adult content (like Majora's Mask), nintendo could lose their "kiddie" image and DEFINITELY gain a new audience. NO ONE buys the game for the ESRB, they buy it for the gameplay and story, and being able to target the older audience with important life concepts is important.

i think their image all started with Mortal Kombat on SNES, with the whole "no blood" thing, and the genesis looked so much cooler and more adult BS and the blah blah blah. since then, i guess the image stayed because like you said, "mature" gamers wanted to put it there, but why? well typically, Nintendo's first party titles are fairly innocent and fun for all ages (like you said), whereas those same "mature" gamers want to sit with Sony and Microsoft at the big kid's table with the M- rated games, thus nintendo has a "kiddie" image for appealing to everyone, from kids to adults.

i do think it is important though that nintendo keep this innocence and fun in their games though. they still need to be able to target every audience, young and old, and they do with games like animal crossing and mario and and so on. but i think they should at least make more games with these mature elements, but not too much. they should be able to balance the two types equally, so there's never an overflow.

i do disagree with that last statement though. when people call nintendo kiddie, they usually mean that nintendo makes games only for kids, and while you are correct that they do appeal to kids the most, you did also say that nintendo makes games for *E*veryone. like i've said before, i think it should be changed to an "all-around" image, that way not only do people not see them as a kid-only company, but also because nintendo really does make games for *E*veryone. i do respect your opinion though.

The Shin Megami Tensei series is very mature and covers a lot of aspects of life such as morality, death, depression etc. same with the Etrian Odyssey series, while they may not be as dark I would still consider them to be plenty mature. But I do agree, a lot of people associate Nintendo with 'kiddie games.' But those people are usually just ignorant fanboys lol.

I think more than the themes of the games itself the issue is that all Nintendo games look cartoony and they don't get the realistic looking third party games, regardless of the actual technical achievement involved in each game, for someone who doesn't know about game development, cartoony games would always seem less impressive than cinematic looking ones..... like If someone who doesn't know anything about video games walks into a Store, there's a PS3 playing the Last of uS and a Wii U playing NSMBU or the Wind Waker HD.... the person would conclude that the PS3 is a much more advance console, and the Wii U would feel like a rip off next to it....

Another issue is that Nintendo games usually have very little story or character they are all about gameplay with excuse plots, the only ones that have some effort put into plot are the fire emblem series and even them the series is more famous for difficulty and permadeadrith that for great storytelling...... I enjoy mindless platformer but I normally prefer games that have some meat to them story-wise... Stereotypical save the princess plots can hardly ever be called mature, In the 3DS there are story/character driven third party games like zero escape VLR, Phoenix Wright and Shin Megami Tensei, but in the Wii U where third party support is virtually non-existant the lack of exclusive games with some complexity to their plots is really felt, which is one of the main reasons I'm not interested in buying the Wii U

This was all pretty much discussed on a previous forum titled Family Friendly and Gamerness.

Here's an idea.

Play what you like and ignore the labels. That has always worked for me.

well, like some of us have said before in the thread, we aren't considering the label when defining a game as mature, we all define it in different ways. me personally, i judge a game as mature by the topics it touches, be it depression, violence, drugs, loneliness, or anything.

The problem is that the definition of "mature" has been heavily skewed in the video game market to where people view an M rating as meaning the contents of the game are "mature", not that it is intended for a mature audience and could otherwise be harmful to developing minds. The reason Nintendo is labeled "kiddy" is primarily because they appeal to a younger audience. Their flagship character bears a comically over sized nose, giving him a cartoonish appearance, which only further pushes the idea of Nintendo being geared towards children. The problem with Nintendo making "appeal to all" style games is that it requires striking a very delicate balance, and even then Majora's Mask scared the s*** out of me as a child. Some games, a good recent example being Shin Megami Tensei IV, are unable strike such a balance and are truly mature titles, using disturbing content to progress a story, while other games such as Duke Nukem or Saints Row use content suitable for a mature audience in immature ways, more than often luring in an immature audience because they think that by playing this "big boy game" that they are more grown up and superior to those whose interests are in games with a more general audience.

Or people play those games because they're fun

Nobody goes to the store and buys GTA because it'll make them 'superior'. Nintendo fans just have an inferiority complex and try to rationalize people playing mature games by saying they have psychological issues.

It's possible that it's a pointless label. There are games like Grand Theft Auto, which features things that young kids think are "mature." Then there are other games, like Zero Escape, that deal with issues of morality and things like that. But I think it's still mostly things that slightly older kids, or at the very least people who haven't dealt with these topics and thus seek them out in safe avenues like games, find mature. "Dark" and "mature" do not necessarily hold hands.

As one of my good friends likes to retort when people try to hold something dark up as being necessarily mature, "well, kids love dark."

My opinion is that a truly "mature" game would not be something the people crying for more "mature" experiences would enjoy. One could argue that a game like Animal Crossing, which forces you to manage finances, build relationships and face day-to-day routines is a mature game.

And I keep saying this, but if that quotation about Miyamoto's mother-in-law game was real, Nintendo is sitting on the most mature game ever conceived.

It's a bit of an odd debate that you don't often see in other, similar hobbies. With something like books, the only people who disparage YA in favour of "adult" books are, well, literal children (and I guess lit snobs, but they don't count).

As an adult - whether that makes me mature or not is up to debate - I find that I'm not spending my time shooting the bad guys or making the tough call on whether to save the nuns or the orphans. I leave those up to the Punisher and Spider-Man respectively. Much of my time is taken up juggling a job, paying my bills, building relationships with the community and my marriage. Looking at things that way, I'd say that the most mature experiences in games today would be Animal Crossing and Harvest Moon.

So. Nintendo fan bash M rated games, just because they don't want to feel emasculated?
Sounds awfully sad, but true. No one should feel shame buying games that you like, just because its Kid-ish. What next? Are going to dress in a long trench coat, just to purchase that next Kirby game? I think not.

I think the thread lost its way, the issue is no whether some games are mature or not, or whether enjoying one type of game over the other makes you more mature or not.... The question is whether Nintendo image is affecting sales and the answer is yes..... Nintendo does not market to kids it markets to parents, that was smart for a while at a time when most consoles where bought by parents for their children, Nintendo knew that children wanted blood in their Mortal Kombat, but they knew it would scare parents......

The problem is that the market has changed while nintendo marketing message hasn't, the number of people who buy consoles for themselves has surpassed the number of parents that buy for their children, also now we have reach the point where people who grew up as gamers have kids themselves... a parent who knows he grew up blowing poopoodoodies in Contra and it didn't turn him into a psycho would not mind to let their kid blow doodoopoopies in call of duty is that what the kid prefers playing.... so maintaining a family a friendly image in order to not scare parents would be becoming less and less relevant each console generation....

@AlexSays : The games can be perfectly fun, but in no way does that take from the validity of my argument. The other day I was eating at Zaxby's with my six year old cousin. Previous times there he ate there, he always would dip his chicken in Honey Mustard, which he greatly enjoyed. This time, however he refused to eat Honey Mustard because it was, in his words, "for babies". How he had developed this idea, I don't know, but he refused to eat Honey Mustard, a sauce that he likes. It may sound odd, but to some kids an M rating is like the difference between diapers and 'big boy underwear', there is no benefit. While you can argue there is a stronger story or deeper mechanics to the game, that isn't going to have much of an effect on a child if he cannot understand any of it.