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Topic: Katy Perry cut from Sesame Street

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ShadowSniper7

@grenworthshero: Yep, but it is not just 5 year old boys that watch Sesame Street

And for the record, I think kids should be shielded from nudity (this case was a bit extreme though) just as much as they should be shielded from vulgar language. Some might argue that nudity is natural thus should be acceptable. If that's the case, vulgar language is just sound waves... My point is this, if you want to raise your children to be upstanding citizens, you don't expose them to everything that is inappropriate in society as soon as they are old enough to understand LOL If running around the streets naked was exceptable in society then all be damned, let your kids see nudity. <-however, that is not the case here.

Sometimes it is good to let them mature a little more before you give them full internet access, let them see violence, nudity etc. Honestly, reading some of these posts have me a bit worried...

Edited on by ShadowSniper7

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Bankai

ShadowSniper7 wrote:

lz2010 wrote:

I actually fail to see any harm in letting children see nude people

Agreed! Let's hook them on porn ASAP.

Your entire argument fails because you equate nudity with sex. Big difference there.

If running around the streets naked was exceptable in society then all be damned, let your kids see nudity. <-however, that is not the case here.

I do agree with this, though. But I believe it's important for a society to attempt to desensitise sex.

Edited on by Bankai

ShadowSniper7

WaltzElf wrote:

ShadowSniper7 wrote:

lz2010 wrote:

I actually fail to see any harm in letting children see nude people

Agreed! Let's hook them on porn ASAP.

Your entire argument fails because you equate nudity with sex. Big difference there.

don't a lot of porn sites just have straight up nude people? if that's not porn, what is?

And if nudity shouldn't be shielded from kids, why should sex be any different?

nudity is natural, so is sex

Edited on by ShadowSniper7

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grenworthshero

obviously there are a lot of people who agree that nudity is perfectly acceptable, and I can't understand why. Sure, it's "natural" and all that hippie crap, but for one, it takes away the mystery of the body, and for the same reason I don't go around trying to have sex with every attractive girl I see, I think it's unacceptable to see nudity in every day life. I'm not trying to say violence is either more or less acceptable to witness, but I certainly don't think nudity is something to be taken as lightly as some people do. If it's in your culture that it's acceptable, that's good for you, I guess. It's still accessible for those who want to see it, but it's one of those things that should be censored or regulated when it's presented in a way that's difficult to avoid, like on TV.

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ShadowSniper7

grenworthshero wrote:

obviously there are a lot of people who agree that nudity is perfectly acceptable, and I can't understand why. Sure, it's "natural" and all that hippie crap, but for one, it takes away the mystery of the body, and for the same reason I don't go around trying to have sex with every attractive girl I see, I think it's unacceptable to see nudity in every day life. I'm not trying to say violence is either more or less acceptable to witness, but I certainly don't think nudity is something to be taken as lightly as some people do. If it's in your culture that it's acceptable, that's good for you, I guess. It's still accessible for those who want to see it, but it's one of those things that should be censored or regulated when it's presented in a way that's difficult to avoid, like on TV.

^I agree whole heartedly

Edited on by ShadowSniper7

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Bankai

grenworthshero wrote:

obviously there are a lot of people who agree that nudity is perfectly acceptable, and I can't understand why. Sure, it's "natural" and all that hippie crap, but for one, it takes away the mystery of the body, and for the same reason I don't go around trying to have sex with every attractive girl I see, I think it's unacceptable to see nudity in every day life. I'm not trying to say violence is either more or less acceptable to witness, but I certainly don't think nudity is something to be taken as lightly as some people do. If it's in your culture that it's acceptable, that's good for you, I guess. It's still accessible for those who want to see it, but it's one of those things that should be censored or regulated when it's presented in a way that's difficult to avoid, like on TV.

That's a slippery slope to headscarves and burquas, that is. In fact, Egypt, Persia (now Iran) and other Middle Eastern cultures is a fascinating case study of what happens when the "nudity and sex shouldn't be taken as lightly as some people do" becomes culturally dominant. The Mid East used to be one of the most liberal and sexually relaxed parts of the world.... and now look.

Edited on by Bankai

ShadowSniper7

WaltzElf wrote:

That's a slippery slope to headscarves and burquas, that is. In fact, Egypt, Persia (now Iran) and other Middle Eastern cultures is a fascinating case study of what happens when the "nudity and sex shouldn't be taken as lightly as some people do" becomes culturally dominant. The Mid East used to be one of the most liberal and sexually relaxed parts of the world.... and now look.

How so?

You know, there is such thing as middle ground right?

Just because it is illegal to shoot someone, that doesn't mean it is illegal to slap someone.

Edited on by ShadowSniper7

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Bankai

ShadowSniper7 wrote:

WaltzElf wrote:

That's a slippery slope to headscarves and burquas, that is. In fact, Egypt, Persia (now Iran) and other Middle Eastern cultures is a fascinating case study of what happens when the "nudity and sex shouldn't be taken as lightly as some people do" becomes culturally dominant. The Mid East used to be one of the most liberal and sexually relaxed parts of the world.... and now look.

How so?

You know, there is such thing as middle ground right?

Just because it is illegal to shoot someone, that doesn't mean it is illegal to slap someone.

Actually, it is illegal to slap someone. It's called assult and will still land you with a criminal record, just not the death penalty.

grenworthshero

WaltzElf wrote:

That's a slippery slope to headscarves and burquas, that is.

In the U.S., public nudity is illegal, as well as nudity and excessive violence on network TV, and I think that's as far as should go. Luckily, the majority of Americans feel the same way.

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Bankai

grenworthshero wrote:

WaltzElf wrote:

That's a slippery slope to headscarves and burquas, that is.

In the U.S., public nudity is illegal, as well as nudity and excessive violence on network TV, and I think that's as far as should go. Luckily, the majority of Americans feel the same way.

Luckily for who? Whatever the American culture is trying to do with covering up everything... it's not working. America has the highest rate of teen pregnancy in the entire world entirely because it treats sex like a forbidden fruit, and a nude body as an inherrently sexual object.

It has a higher rate of teen pregnancy that Spain, where you are legally able to have sex at 13, and the Netherlands, which is filled with publically-accepted red light districts, and childrens cartoons laden with sexual imagery.

Sometimes, pretending things don't exist causes more harm than it heals.

Edited on by Bankai

grenworthshero

WaltzElf wrote:

grenworthshero wrote:

WaltzElf wrote:

That's a slippery slope to headscarves and burquas, that is.

In the U.S., public nudity is illegal, as well as nudity and excessive violence on network TV, and I think that's as far as should go. Luckily, the majority of Americans feel the same way.

Luckily for who? Whatever the American culture is trying to do with covering up everything... it's not working. America has the highest rate of teen pregnancy in the entire world entirely because it treats sex like a forbidden fruit, and a nude body as an inherrently sexual object.

Your pessimism never ceases to amaze me.
The age of consent is different for each state, by the way, and it's not really difficult to find ways of viewing sexually explicit things, if your parents allow it. I just like that there are measures in place that regulate it for those of us that don't want to see it, while others can, if they so please.

Edited on by grenworthshero

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ShadowSniper7

@waltzelf: Fine, nitpick my argument. I could list a few better examples if you would like. My point still stands, just because we want to keep the baggage hidden, doesn't mean we want it all hidden.

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ShadowSniper7

WaltzElf wrote:

grenworthshero wrote:

WaltzElf wrote:

That's a slippery slope to headscarves and burquas, that is.

In the U.S., public nudity is illegal, as well as nudity and excessive violence on network TV, and I think that's as far as should go. Luckily, the majority of Americans feel the same way.

Luckily for who? Whatever the American culture is trying to do with covering up everything... it's not working. America has the highest rate of teen pregnancy in the entire world entirely because it treats sex like a forbidden fruit, and a nude body as an inherrently sexual object.

It has a higher rate of teen pregnancy that Spain, where you are legally able to have sex at 13, and the Netherlands, which is filled with publically-accepted red light districts, and childrens cartoons laden with sexual imagery.

Sometimes, pretending things don't exist causes more harm than it heals.

So encouraging nudity and sex would fix this problem? I see what ya did there

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Bankai

grenworthshero wrote:

WaltzElf wrote:

grenworthshero wrote:

WaltzElf wrote:

That's a slippery slope to headscarves and burquas, that is.

In the U.S., public nudity is illegal, as well as nudity and excessive violence on network TV, and I think that's as far as should go. Luckily, the majority of Americans feel the same way.

Luckily for who? Whatever the American culture is trying to do with covering up everything... it's not working. America has the highest rate of teen pregnancy in the entire world entirely because it treats sex like a forbidden fruit, and a nude body as an inherrently sexual object.

Your pessimism never ceases to amaze me.

Stats from 2002 (a little old, I know, but these numbers don't change that dramatically one year to the next)

Teenage birth rate per 1000 women 15–19

United States 53
Spain 6
Netherlands 5

And here's the best one:

Japan 4

I can tell you from experience, sexual imagery in Japan, including minors, is in full public display everywhere.

So encouraging nudity and sex would fix this problem? I see what ya did there

Not so much as encouraging the education of sex and nudity, rather than just pretending it doesn't exist. That's how Europe works, as a whole.

Edited on by Bankai

ShadowSniper7

WaltzElf wrote:

grenworthshero wrote:

WaltzElf wrote:

grenworthshero wrote:

WaltzElf wrote:

That's a slippery slope to headscarves and burquas, that is.

In the U.S., public nudity is illegal, as well as nudity and excessive violence on network TV, and I think that's as far as should go. Luckily, the majority of Americans feel the same way.

Luckily for who? Whatever the American culture is trying to do with covering up everything... it's not working. America has the highest rate of teen pregnancy in the entire world entirely because it treats sex like a forbidden fruit, and a nude body as an inherrently sexual object.

Your pessimism never ceases to amaze me.

Stats from 2002 (a little old, I know, but these numbers don't change that dramatically one year to the next)

Teenage birth rate per 1000 women 15–19

United States 53
Spain 6
Netherlands 5

And here's the best one:

Japan 4

I can tell you from experience, sexual imagery in Japan, including minors, is in full public display everywhere.

I feel like I need to point out that you are proving our point. Why do you think we are trying to shield kids from nudity and sex?

Would legalizing drugs help our drug problem. I just don't see where you are trying to go with this...

So basically you are saying that if we just put up nudity everywhere and encouraged sex, our problem would be solved???

Edited on by ShadowSniper7

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Bankai

ShadowSniper7 wrote:

WaltzElf wrote:

grenworthshero wrote:

WaltzElf wrote:

grenworthshero wrote:

WaltzElf wrote:

That's a slippery slope to headscarves and burquas, that is.

In the U.S., public nudity is illegal, as well as nudity and excessive violence on network TV, and I think that's as far as should go. Luckily, the majority of Americans feel the same way.

Luckily for who? Whatever the American culture is trying to do with covering up everything... it's not working. America has the highest rate of teen pregnancy in the entire world entirely because it treats sex like a forbidden fruit, and a nude body as an inherrently sexual object.

Your pessimism never ceases to amaze me.

Stats from 2002 (a little old, I know, but these numbers don't change that dramatically one year to the next)

Teenage birth rate per 1000 women 15–19

United States 53
Spain 6
Netherlands 5

And here's the best one:

Japan 4

I can tell you from experience, sexual imagery in Japan, including minors, is in full public display everywhere.

I feel like I need to point out that you are proving our point. Why do you think we are trying to shield kids from nudity and sex?

Would legalizing drugs help our drug problem. I just don't see where you are trying to go with this...

Drugs is a different debate. See, there's arguable evidence that legal access to drugs causes the community harm. The evidence when it comes to nudity and sex appears to suggest the opposite - having an open community around sex actually improves education levels and leads to less teenage pregnancy.

So basically you are saying that if we just put up nudity everywhere and encouraged sex, our problem would be solved???

Note I never said encouraged sex. From the start I've been saying "not treat sex like a forbidden fruit", or, emulate the European system, which actually works.

This means that toplessness on beaches isn't necessarily offensive. This means that you don't sensor art or docos because there's a breast shown. etc etc.

Open communities: Who cares what Katy Perry does!

Edited on by Bankai

grenworthshero

I understand where you're coming from Waltzy, but, at the same time, I still think we need regulation of "questionable" content, so those who do wish to stay away from it are free to do so, while giving the option of accessing it to others....much like non-smoking sections in restaurants, or--more accurately--like banning smoking indoors, but allowing it everywhere else

Edited on by grenworthshero

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ShadowSniper7

WaltzElf wrote:

Drugs is a different debate. See, there's arguable evidence that legal access to drugs causes the community harm. The evidence when it comes to nudity and sex appears to suggest the opposite - having an open community around sex actually improves education levels and leads to less teenage pregnancy.

We have drifted into an entirely different argument. Parents who don't want there kids to see nudity can rest a little easier here from what I have heard from you guys. Now we are debating on how to solve teen pregnancy. I just don't think that showing sex and nudity would fix this problem. I don't claim to have all the answers but I think there is another reason why America has a higher teen pregnancy rate.

Edited on by ShadowSniper7

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grenworthshero

ShadowSniper7 wrote:

...I think there is another reason why America has a higher teen pregnancy.

I live in Kentucky. Here, there is nothing to do but drink and make babies.
EDIT: I feel like I should make it clear that I'm not from Kentucky, so I don't share this sentiment

Edited on by grenworthshero

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