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Topic: Katy Perry cut from Sesame Street

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Bankai

grenworthshero wrote:

I understand where you're coming from Waltzy, but, at the same time, I still think we need regulation of "questionable" content, so those who do wish to stay away from it are free to do so, while giving the option of accessing it to others....much like non-smoking sections in restaurants, or--more accurately--like banning smoking indoors, but allowing it everywhere else

In principle, I think this is a good idea. In reality, the problem there is is leads to a social discrimination against people that "access" that "material."

Think 'dirty old men' or 'Katy Perry is a whore' - those comments are just terrible, and indicitive of a 'forbidden fruit' approach to sex. Isolating it to people who are just looking for it, rather than naturalising it within every day life is risky, in that sense.

I don't claim to have all the answers but I think there is another reason why America has a higher teen pregnancy.

The main reason appears to be a lack of proper sex education (who would have thought), but it stems from the same 'core' problem that nudity and sex are serious taboos in America.

From what I understand schools - especially the 'Christian' leaning ones, preach abstinence, rather than explain safe sex and engage in discussions with the students around sex.

Kids are going to have sex. Kids that don't know how to have safe sex = trouble.

Edited on by Bankai

ShadowSniper7

I think the higher rate of teen pregnancy is becoming more and more of a problem due to overall decline in morality. Crime rates are higher too right? I think it just comes down to bad parenting if you ask me.

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grenworthshero

WaltzElf wrote:

grenworthshero wrote:

I understand where you're coming from Waltzy, but, at the same time, I still think we need regulation of "questionable" content, so those who do wish to stay away from it are free to do so, while giving the option of accessing it to others....much like non-smoking sections in restaurants, or--more accurately--like banning smoking indoors, but allowing it everywhere else

In principle, I think this is a good idea. In reality, the problem there is is leads to a social discrimination against people that "access" that "material."

Think 'dirty old men' or 'Katy Perry is a whore' - those comments are just terrible, and indicitive of a 'forbidden fruit' approach to sex. Isolating it to people who are just looking for it, rather than naturalising it within every day life is risky, in that sense.

Well, (arguably, I suppose) America has been slowly "naturalising it" for years. Look back to bathing suits from 1920 -- they look like dresses longer than those girls wear today

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ShadowSniper7

WaltzElf wrote:

From what I understand schools - especially the 'Christian' leaning ones, preach abstinence, rather than explain safe sex and engage in discussions with the students around sex.

Kids are going to have sex. Kids that don't know how to have safe sex = trouble.

It is these schools that have a lower teen pregnancy rates though

Edited on by ShadowSniper7

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Bankai

grenworthshero wrote:

WaltzElf wrote:

grenworthshero wrote:

I understand where you're coming from Waltzy, but, at the same time, I still think we need regulation of "questionable" content, so those who do wish to stay away from it are free to do so, while giving the option of accessing it to others....much like non-smoking sections in restaurants, or--more accurately--like banning smoking indoors, but allowing it everywhere else

In principle, I think this is a good idea. In reality, the problem there is is leads to a social discrimination against people that "access" that "material."

Think 'dirty old men' or 'Katy Perry is a whore' - those comments are just terrible, and indicitive of a 'forbidden fruit' approach to sex. Isolating it to people who are just looking for it, rather than naturalising it within every day life is risky, in that sense.

Well, (arguably, I suppose) America has been slowly "naturalising it" for years. Look back to bathing suits from 1920 -- they look like dresses longer than those girls wear today

This is true - and that goes all the way back to why I am so surprised when there's a huge uproar over a Janet Jackson or Katy Perry. It's a huge disconnect from what I see as a largely positive trend to relax over sexual imagery.

Edited on by Bankai

ShadowSniper7

grenworthshero wrote:

Well, (arguably, I suppose) America has been slowly "naturalising it" for years. Look back to bathing suits from 1920 -- they look like dresses longer than those girls wear today

And back then teen pregnancy wasn't nearly as much of a problem. Once again, leading me to believe that teen sex rates are NOT up because of lack of nudity. Something else is at play here (see my above post).

Edited on by ShadowSniper7

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Bankai

ShadowSniper7 wrote:

grenworthshero wrote:

Well, (arguably, I suppose) America has been slowly "naturalising it" for years. Look back to bathing suits from 1920 -- they look like dresses longer than those girls wear today

And back then teen pregnancy wasn't nearly as much of a problem. Once again, leading me to believe that teen sex rates are NOT up because of lack of nudity. Something else is at play here (see my above post).

And

I think the higher rate of teen pregnancy is becoming more and more of a problem due to overall decline in morality.

So I take it you consider sex immoral? It's really hard to have a discussion with you if you're going to be that irrationally conservative.

ShadowSniper7

WaltzElf wrote:

ShadowSniper7 wrote:

grenworthshero wrote:

Well, (arguably, I suppose) America has been slowly "naturalising it" for years. Look back to bathing suits from 1920 -- they look like dresses longer than those girls wear today

And back then teen pregnancy wasn't nearly as much of a problem. Once again, leading me to believe that teen sex rates are NOT up because of lack of nudity. Something else is at play here (see my above post).

And

I think the higher rate of teen pregnancy is becoming more and more of a problem due to overall decline in morality.

So I take it you consider sex immoral? It's really hard to have a discussion with you if you're going to be that irrationally conservative.

WHEN DID I SAY THAT?! It isn't right for teen girls at age 16 to get pregnant

I never said sex was immoral

Edited on by ShadowSniper7

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grenworthshero

I think there's clearly more involved than nudity or social mores to draw a correlation between those and the pregnancy rate, it's true, but I tend to agree with Waltzy on that one; people want what we can't have, and if you present it as such a taboo thing, then it's going to escalate.

as far as the uproar over Janet Jackson or Katy Perry...there is always an outspoken minority. Every time something like that happens, there are a few people who freak out, and the media propels that.

Edited on by grenworthshero

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ShadowSniper7

Waltzy you have said that America is too strict as far as nudity and sex and that is the reason why teen pregnancy rates are up. Well, America is sort of failing at shielding it so you can't really base it on this anyway.

If teen sex truly escalates with lack of nudity, then why were teen pregnancy rates down 50 years ago when people would wear more modest clothing? You can't answer that and that is why there is more too it. Bad parenting and decline in morality. <-that is what I think anyway.

EDIT: Like I said, I don't have all the answers. I can only offer my opinion. I just can't possibly see how showing more nudity would help. I agree with you on one thing, better sex ed classes

Edited on by ShadowSniper7

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Link79

you can take your kids to the mall and see more nudity than that Katy perry thing. Ariel from the little mermaid showed more cleavage than that.

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Lock soon perhaps?

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Bankai

I think there's clearly more involved than nudity or social mores to draw a correlation between those and the pregnancy rate, it's true, but I tend to agree with Waltzy on that one; people want what we can't have, and if you present it as such a taboo thing, then it's going to escalate.

I agree. I don't mean to suggest theres one single root to any single social problem, but in this case data would suggest education is a big one.

There's other ways to look at it too - it's in a teenager's nature to be rebellious. If they know their parents are going to disapprove of them having sex... well that's more incentive to have sex than anything else really. Then, if they're not educated on safe sex (which they're not) teenage pregnancy suddently becomes a possibility.

That's part of the philosophy behind lowering the age of consent. If it's not 'naughty' it's less likely a rebellious teenager will do it to 'stick it to the world'. Instead they'll take drugs (hello Europe!)

Then there's the tragic cases of families- especially ethnic families on the below povery line. Teenage pregnancy is the least of their problems, and that doesn't have much to do with education at all.

ShadowSniper7

sesame street isn't that great of a show anyway

Why is it so popular?

EDIT: hey, it did lock If it was to stop the debate, the moderator was about an hour late lol

Edited on by ShadowSniper7

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grenworthshero

probably because everyone's grown up with it, first of all. It also has characters everyone likes. I always loved Grover, Oscar, and Snuffleupagus as a kid. I didn't so much like Big Bird, but I loved Big Bird Goes to Japan, because I lived in Japan at the time. And people there LOVE Big Bird.

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