Topic: ECA vs Schwarzenegger: Petion against the US Congress trying to control our games!

@WaltzElf
Harsh words, man.
Look, I'm sure your system works great, but that's completely irrelevant.
I'm not a huge fan of a lot that goes on in my country, but what I do appreciate is that when an issue raises my concern, I have the ability to confront the issue and affect the outcome. It's not that I'm PANICKING!!!
I'm just doing what we do over here, signing petitions, lobbying, researching the issue, having an opinion, etc.

Sorry, didn't mean to point the finger at you specifically, but this kind of thing happens over and over again in American culture. The policy makers come up with an idea that has been in place, successfully, somewhere else in the developed world for a very long time, and the American people completely overlook it, twist it into something it's not, and then virtually riot on the imagined premise that it's going to restrict their freedoms.

You only have to look at the gun debate for a prime example of that.

guess we'll never see a good terminator game again.

@WaltzElf
I'm not personally offended, I just think you're making a sweeping generalization about Americans, which is fine, we deserve it a lot of the time. I understand your point, and it is a good one. I just think its hard to understand American enthusiasm regarding our basic rights if you're not an American. It may seem like fanaticism, but its patriotism. Our whole country was founded on revolution, so fighting the powers that be on issues that matter to us is virtually instinctual.

As I did preface initially, this is just an observation I've made about American culture in general. The nature of generalisations is that it's not going to apply to everyone, but enough that it's a relevant point - Nabuchov's Lolita is a good example of that kind of generalisation.

I do understand that I'm not going to properly comprehend the fanaticisim (or patriotism) that grips Americans whenever they percieve their freedoms and inhibited. However, I also believe that America should grow up and out of that childish view. What worked for you guys 200 years ago is not going to work now.

If you applied that philosophy to Australia we'd still be a nation populated almost entirely of criminals, either etching out a living in hard labour or robbing the English overlords. We've since developed into a free, multinational country that barely considers itself part of the British Empire. It's time for America to change its cultural direction, because in all honesty as an outsider looking in, you guys are doing yourselves no favours on the world stage.

I signed it, and I had a damn good reason why I support the ECA in this situation.

Jeez, this government irks me.

I signed it, this is freaking ridiculous. The government refuses to fix our enconony and they want to control video games' content instead!?

@Waltz
Since you and i already had a lengthy debate on these issues in another thread, i'm not going to get back into it again. But honestly, you have no idea how the United States system of laws and government works, nor how we perceive our freedoms and the desire to protect them, nor how most citizens do not want government micro-management of our lives. Your views and perceptions of the United States government and legal system seem to be based largely on non-information and preconcieved notions with respect to how you think things should be.

Just because you believe your government's way of doing things works (which is debatable given the latest political situations in Parliment going on down there, but i digress as that's an unrelated issue), does not mean that the same should be applied to a nation which is different in so many ways.

End communication.

Very well said, and with much less profanity than the reply I was thinking of.

Hang on, are you actually suggesting that non-American outsiders cannot make observations based on what America presents of its culture to the world (and I have been to the US twice, my observations are not based on second hand accounts), and that we can't criticise what we percieve to be poor policy?

I'm asking the question, is all.

And for the record I have plenty of criticisms of Australia's Government, and political system. My point was that, despite there being some restrictions to behaviour within Australia, such as restrictions to gun access, no provision for 'freedom of speech,' and a policy-supported censorship system, claiming we're somehow not a 'free' society is crazy. And yet, that is exactly what many of the people who are against this policy are saying.

You've been here TWICE?! By god, you must be an expert by now then. I saw Crocodile Dundee as well as the The Crocodile Hunter a few dozen times. By the same token I'm pretty sure I know everything there is know about Australia.

For example:
This isn't a knife

THIS is a knife:

I'm guessing that should get me through the first few years of Australian history classes.

@WaltzElf
Wait, who said that?
I don't think anyone who is against the policy actually thinks that implementing it would be sacrificing our state as a "free society." It's just a matter of speaking up against what we deem as an unwanted policy.

And (I know you weren't directing the question at me, but...) of course you have the right to make observations and have opinions about our country, but I agree with Shpydar regarding your inability to really see how Americans perceive their freedoms or our desire to protect them (well said, Shpydar). To you, it may seem childish or nonsensical, but I would never claim to be able to truly understand the motivations behind what I perceive to be strange elements of some foreign countries, and thus I wouldn't feel right criticizing them.

Pfft. Neither of those are knives.

THAT'S a knife.

As I said, and you conveniently chose to ignore. My observations on America have been formed by the image America presents to the rest of the world (and this thread is a lovely reinforcement of that), and my trips to the US, which, as far as I could tell, confirmed everything you imagine about America to be true.

To put it another way - America's never surprised me. When it does then I'll reevaluate my understanding of America.

I don't think anyone who is against the policy actually thinks that implementing it would be sacrificing our state as a "free society." It's just a matter of speaking up against what we deem as an unwanted policy.

See, that's cool and all, and if it was just that then great.

But in that case I don't see where the first ammendment and "freedoms" are associated with it, then.

Please do. I'm always desperate for the approval of my country from random message board posters. My days will just have to be a little darker until that time arrives.

@WaltzElf
its because other entertainment media in America IS protected under the 1st amendment, and now videogames are coming into question. the idea is that, if we are going to say that government CANNOT involve itself in the production and distribution of other entertainment media, then it shouldn't be able to do so with videogames.

Same here, and I best stay out of this one.
For those of you who didn't sign it because you don't care about violent games, I urge you to reconsider. It's not a matter of just protecting violent video games, it's protecting the rights of video game developers in general. And for those of you who are not from the US and don't care, you should, because many game developers are from the US, and no funding here means you don't get games, either. It's already illegal to sell M-rated games to minors, but this law will make everything more complicated. That's the point of the ESRB. What more can you ask for? Parents need to stop being morons, if they really care about what their kids are playing. It's written right there on the box, and if you're not convinced, check ESRB's website.

...Eh. To be honest, if nobody ever said the F word again the world would be a better place. I don't need sex, violence and cursing to be happy, and I don't think any of those things have ever increased my enjoyment of a game. We shouldn't be able to sell this kind of stuff to minors. Now, of course there's the argument that this could be the start of future censorship. That seems highly unlikely. You can do anything you want if you're willing to put a high enough rating on it. If you want hardcore nudity, group sex and coke snorting in your movie, you can totally do it. But it'll be NC-17. I don't see why videogames would ever be any different.

• points to Left 4 Dead (2 if not the original too) Australian addition *

I'm not even bothering with anything else you said, even though I agree in some way. (I do think the use of violence, sex and blood etc in games and other media is way overrated but the way you said it was painful to read)

any censorship is horrible. Also, the idea that video games of all things is what any politician is focusing on in, considering all the problems in this country, is so disgusting in so many ways. If it wasn't so predictable I would be enraged by this.

There seems to be some confusion here between what censorship means. Does it mean changing a piece of media, or restricting that piece of media to a more mature audience? Obviously, the former is something we don't want, while the later seems like such an easy solution. The only problem with it is people blaming the games for corrupting children and not the parents who allow their kids to be exposed to the violence and sex in the games.

I have a feeling we have a long thread ahead of us.

it isn't that big of a issue tho, if they actually would put that rule throught. It will only result into importing games big time. instead of buying them locally. Which results in a rule that its allowed again.

its the same with the "illigal" matters of our country, while you cant get it here ( holland) 99% of the dutch people are still walking with it. how? just order it from a country next to you, and done deal.

The netherlands already passed this stage yeaaaaaars ago, when games like manhunter or something got released. Its the same with movies / music etc. People can decide for themself if its a bad or good game.

In my early ages, we had a game for the pc where you needed to race against eachother. You could drive normal people that where walking in those city's dead ( not gta) Which got a huge attention from the media. And quess what, i played it for hours and hours, and as far as i can remember, i didn't turned out to be a psychopath that drives in real life people in pieces.