Throughout history many things have been abolished despite the fact that it was far from simple to do so. The fact that the issue is complex doesn't neccessarily mean guns shouldn't be banned.
In the next few decades it seems likely that the USA will decline in prosperity and influence (along with the rest of the western world I might add). Increased poverty tends to lead to an increase in violence. It is but a loose prediction and not a practical solution, but gun violence may well increase as America becomes less wealthy and the problem would then come to the fore in a manner in which it can't be ignored. Guns are legal in South Africa, and the combination of acute poverty and a wide availability of guns isn't pretty.
Again to reiterate, this is just a theory with many ifs and buts. I hope the western world will thrive in the future, for reasons that I expect are obvious.
@cowlaunch Yes, well, one of the problems is the second amendment is unlikely to be repealed without enormous public and political change. Not too many Americans are keen on touching the Constitution.
I'm a bit skeptical of your scenario, though, as if that's all it took the 1930's would have been a bloodbath for the US.
"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
@CowLaunch it's rather ignorant of you to speak of the US as such without living here yourself, but that aside, the issue is, those of use who own guns (the responsible gun owners, anyway) know that guns aren't what's causing violence. The mere existence and availability of guns does not encourage gun violence. Nor does the ownership of a gun immediately produce a killer, or potential victim. There are too many facts to say otherwise. Guns are a big part of America's history. Some negative, yes, but the fact is that many, especially southerners, have strong ties to their history. It's not a matter of complication; while some believe they are more safe with a gun around, others just like to have guns. It's just like those who love cars. More people die in car accidents by far than gun accidents each year, are you going to try and outlaw automobiles because they pose a potential danger because of those irresponsible individuals? No; that's ludicrous. The fact is, those who aren't gun owners, and have never been around responsible gun owners, are ignorant, because they don't know how fun it can be, and how safe guns are if you handle them correctly. Too many people are scared of guns just because they have the potential to kill. If anything, in the US, the gun crime rate would skyrocket if we were to ban guns. Remember prohibition? It's a classic example of people wanting what they can't have, and if responsible gun owners can't have guns, what does that leave us? Only criminals, who will find their way around the law to get a gun, as they already do.
I'm a bit skeptical of your scenario, though, as if that's all it took the 1930's would have been a bloodbath for the US.
That's a fair point, the US probably coped better than many countries at that time, although America was still fairly wealthy and a major power in the 1930s, despite the depression. I still think the matter will come to the fore at some stage though, where I expect a compromise of some sort will be introduced.
@grensworthshero How do you know I haven't lived in the US? I haven't, but I've spoken to Americans with almost identical views to mine on this matter (although obviously you'd view them as incorrect). Also, I wouldn't view living in a country as a neccessary prerequisite to discussing a subject prevalent in that country. If that were the case, discussion would be pretty narrow. Indeed, if you had a view on an issue involving the UK, (where I'm from) I'd welcome it, you may have seen something which we hadn't.
To a degree I accept your reasoning on the dangers of cars etc. I suppose you could say that a parent has a right to keep bleach in their house despite the fact that it could be lethal if their child got hold of it. However, regardless of how they are used now, guns are objects that were designed to kill things, whether that be animals or humans. Cars are designed to help people get from A to B, death is a tragic byproduct. I suppose we're talking about whether things are intrinsically wrong or wrong because of the consequences which derive from them, and that could be a very long discussion. Guns don't kill people? How far can you take that line of reasoning? Nuclear weapons don't kill people, people do?There are far less tragic killings due to guns in the UK & France etc. than in America. It's not coincidence. We've not reached a point where guns are seen as normal. Why alow guns anyway? To allow people a sporting chance when they come up against the police? Again, it just seems alien to us, and I guess we wouldn't understand unless we experienced that culture.
I agree that overly emotive arguments aren't particularly helpful here and don't wrestle with the reality of the situation, on the other hand I don't see tradition as a valid argument for anything on it's own. If something is worthwhile it should be able to stand up on it's own merits.
Well, this issue obvioulsly isn't going to be resolved any time soon, and nor does it seem likely that we'll agree; so in the meantime I'll just be thankful for responsible gun owners such as yourself and The Fox.
Wouldn't you regret that if some nut uses his gun freedom to crash into your house and start shooting. You can't simply grab the gun because you would have to get the lock open first.
I'd rather have the crazy idiots not being able to get their guns and trade in my recreative fun with shooting, than having every idiot in the country having just as much freedom in owning a gun as I do even though I just shoot at soda cans.
There will always be crazy idiots, and I don't think the number of crazy idiots is that much higher in Canada, the US or Finland than in Fance or the UK.
Sure, our governments do not have to decide everything for us. That'd be like communism or fascism. But the tendency to use the words "freedom" and "rights" for dangerous things that need to be taken care of responsibly like guns, also gives freedom to crazy nuts who are all but responsible.
And comparing the deaths by car accidents to guns is just silly. Sure there may be more people that get killed in the US by cars than guns. But cars have a much greater practical use than guns which are only used in case of elf-defense or for entertainment.
A system without free access to guns works in the UK apparently, but I strongly doubt that the UK, or the US or Finland or Canada for that matter, would prosper very well without cars.
If someone is going to break into my house and start shooting, they're going to kill me either way, whether I don't have a gun or it's locked up. But I wouldn't want the gun in the wrong hands so I keep it locked up. I rarely get to shoot it at the range anymore anyway.
And it doesn't matter what side of the gun fence you're on. You can spin it any way you want to, good or bad.
A system without free access to guns works in the UK apparently, but I strongly doubt that the UK, or the US or Finland or Canada for that matter, would prosper very well without cars.
lol Amen to that. Keep those death machines rolling.
Sean Aaron ~ "The secret is out: I'm really an American cat-girl." Q: How many physicists does it take to change a light bulb? A: Two, one to hold the light bulb, the other to rotate the universe.
Sorry but I don't buy this excuse that 'oh it's our history ,thats why we love guns'. My country has a history of slavery prehaps we should have never abolished that!! You say that you need guns to protect yourself against people with other guns, well that works in the bigger scheme of things as well. Ever wonder why North Korea,China etc want nuclear weapons and suchlike.It's because the western world has a bigger gun! You see the problem with this senario - where will it end? If the Human race is to evolve I believe it has too end this love affair with weapons and killing and learn to co-exist with each other because at the moment were still a very primitive race.(well I can dream can't I? )
You are dreaming. How's the weather there in Rainbowland?
Very pleasant,thanks for asking? Oh I know it's not gonna happen,I'm right though don't ya think? I just think that steps should be made towards gun free society's. It's fine for America to say we like our guns and were keepin em' but those guns don't just stay in America ,they become distributed around the world so it's a global issue. The reason this bothers me is because of the way in which UK culture is now so heavily influenced by American culture and I don't want my daughter to grow up in a place where guns are considered the norm.It's a scary prospect!
I like shooting my gun when I have a chance to go to the police department range here, but I do see what you're saying. But I'm afraid it would be a bit like prohibition was when they outlawed the sale of alcohol. It just really made the criminal element of it more influential and powerful and created more problems than just making it legal again. I'd personally like to see all alcohol ads pulled from television and print media altogether, but that's not likely to happen either.
@Corbie So do you just own a gun because you enjoy shooting targets etc or is self defense the main reason? The reason I ask is if it's the sporting aspect could you not just go to the range and hire a gun or keep it there. I can understand people enjoy the sport (it's in the olympics after all) but do you really need them at home? I know it's not an easy issue to solve and I'm no expert on the subject especially from the American side of things. I mean how common is gun ownership in the US? Do most of your friends also own guns? Is there a big anti-gun movement over there?
Oh everyone I know owns a gun. I'm in Texas. LOL. You can even carry them around on your person if you have a concealed carry permit that's very easy to get. I have one, but I've never carried my gun anywhere. I just like to go to the range sometimes with my friends that are policeman here and shoot. And you're right, I could just as easily borrow a gun from the range, I just bought this years ago. It does make me feel better to have it here at the house, but as was stated earlier, since I keep it locked up in a safe, it would take me a bit to be able to get to it if I needed it.
So, you don't like guns? Then what's up with the Planet of the Apes, gun-wielding avatar? Do you think it would be safer to have monkeys patrolling the streets at night, protecting us from the crims?
Anyway, I live in Australia, that should tell you that most probably I do not own a gun. I do believe in family defence though.
The thing is: The fact that everybody can have a gun is the reason that every criminal has a gun and therefore you need a gun to protect yourself. So that is no argument. I live in Germany just very few people own guns so most criminals just have knives or something and therefore you don't need guns to protect yourself...
Yeah, not here. Every criminal who intends on doing anything more than stealing a soda has a gun here, and knives don't stop guns.
So, you don't like guns? Then what's up with the Planet of the Apes, gun-wielding avatar? Do you think it would be safer to have monkeys patrolling the streets at night, protecting us from the crims?
LOL.. I know bit of a contradiction eh? While I would like to see monkey's patrol the streets I would only issue them with tazers! I know guns will be a part of society and I don't have a major issue with trained policeman having them in certain situations it's the seemingly relaxed attitude of certain places towards guns that scare me.
So, you don't like guns? Then what's up with the Planet of the Apes, gun-wielding avatar? Do you think it would be safer to have monkeys patrolling the streets at night, protecting us from the crims?
Anyway, I live in Australia, that should tell you that most probably I do not own a gun. I do believe in family defence though.
I live here too! I can think of about 50,000 people who are really glad guns are illegal, and they all own petrol stations. Also, his avatar was just a picture, not what he believes in. As for family protection, remember that if you get guns, so do criminals. ~EOR!
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