This has been, and will be, one of the big topics to discuss with one another whenever dedicated gamers are around talking about video games. Do you think games can be art, or do you think the opposite? It would be appreciated if you explained why you hold your view.

WAAAAAAAIT! I come from the future, where this thread gets locked for having a topic that has already been heavily discussed on a multitude of threads! And nobody keeps the conversation civil!

@Happy_Mask To be fair, none of those threads were actually meant for talking about games as an artform. They got derailed into it.

What decides if something is an art?

Well, if drawing, designing, composing, arranging and etc are cosidered arts, and making video games involve these activities, then, why not?

Of course they can. That's a stupid question. In a gaming world that has had Mother 3 and Today I Die for years, this is really beyond even a necessary discussion. I'm sorry, but there's no alternative to this, if anything this topic should be about the continued efforts to prove why games CAN be art, dare I say comparable to the greatest novels, movies or music.

Most people tend to define it around the lines of the expression of creativity and/or imagination by appealing to the senses (you know, sight, sound, touch, smell, and hearing).

Yes, yes it is. I won't make a huge speech about it cuz kkslider5552000 already covered all that.

KKSlider has a point there. This topic is beyond debate. All we really need are some more examples of why games are art. If I weren't against the inevitable movement towards expressionism in games, I'd probably provide quite a few examples.

I really wish Waltz didn't get banned. This was his thing.

Since enough responces have shown up, I feel I can give my two cents. Yes, I believe games can be art just as much as literature, paintings, music or cinema. Do all games exhibit this? Well, I don't think a urinal in an art muesum is art, I don't think Justin Beiber is an artist, I don't think 50 Shades of Grey is art, and I don't think Scary Movie # is art, so I don't think all games are art either. However, it only takes one example for the medium to hold the potential to be art, so I think it absolutely does.

I'll give an example with The World Ends With You. In it, you play as an emo kid named Neku who views himself as the center of the world. The "world ends with him", so to speak. Events occur that force him into playing a game for his life. In this game, he must have a partner whom he trusts with his life in order to survive for seven days. Now Neku, being the antisocial teenager he is, obviously has conflict and trouble in this endeavor. Furthering this endeavor is the fact that when he fights creatures that stop him from accomplishing his various objectives he and his partner are separated and they each have to fight by their lonesome. This isn't entirely true, however, as they each fight the same enemies when separtated; they just can't see each other (due to fighting in slightly separate planes, but that complicates things and I don't want to get too into that). Neku has to trust that his partner will have his back when fighting, as does his partner. This helps Neku to become more trusting of those around him and help him to not see himself as the center of the world. It shapes and develops his character throughout the course of the game.
This is all done through gameplay, by the way. The developers here utilize interactive gameplay to creatively showcase the story of one's opening up to the world, a point that is hammered home throughout the course of the game. This wouldn't have the same effect in any medium outside of video games.

That's why I think games can be art; TWEWY displays that the medium has the potential.

As for why I made this, it was for two reasons:
1) Some gamers do not think that games can be art.
2) To make us miss Waltz

I'm not even a huge "artsy gaming" sort of guy, but I can plenty of great examples of this. Journey for...um...the journey. Yeah. They weren't exactly subtle with that were they?

Silent Hill's use of symbolism and psychology, Fragile Ruins' brilliant atmosphere of loneliness, Contact's flawed yet brilliant meta-riffic ending (of course technically the entire game is technically meta), and of course an obligatory mention of Missile Command.

Waltz was band? I thought he willing gave up on the site and left.

As already stated I agree there is no debate. Games are art we just need examples. I want to say Metal Gear Solid for it's story pacing and "wow" moments that were amazing when it came out.
Megaman X for it's way to teach players almost, if not, everything you got to know through solely gameplay. (And phenominal soundtrack).

I could go on an in depth analysis on 999 and Virtue's Last Reward, but doing so would spoil the experience for people. I feel it is enough to say that those both showcase how games can be art very well.

I think of everything as an art form..

Watch this:

If that's not art, then I have no idea what qualifies.

Short answer: Yes
Slightly longer answer: Yes, Roger Ebert sucks ass
Even longer answer: Yes, go look up "art games". There will be free flash games along with reviews of downloadable titles such as Flower and Braid which many consider art.
Long annoying answer: Not doing this one.

On the topic of Roger Ebert, here's something he wrote. http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2010/07/okay_kids_play_on_my_...
I highly recommend you read it. It's really well-written and helps show why some people don't consider video games as art. Not necessarily all, but many. Anyway, I don't hate the guy at all, because he actually responded to his blog that set the debate on fire and expressed his opinion in an articulate manner.

Yes, I think games are art, just like movies, books, ect.

Also, does anyone know why WhiteKnight was banned? He was quick to start debates, but he was always well written & thought out (in other words, he never came off as "trolling" to me).

Yes, I think so. An Art is something that takes talent and effort. So it is an Art. But a great peice of Art has to be innovative, and distinctive, though so I would call something like New Super Mario Bros. 2, a great game, but not the best work of Art. Wolfenstein 3D, however, I would call a great peice of art.

I agree with kkslider 100%