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Topic: D.I.C.E developer keynotes up

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shingi_70

1. Posted:

So a lot of the D.I.C.E. keynotes were put online via the Variety Youtube channel. Pretty interesting stuff getting to hear what developers think on various subjects and were the industry is going.

I don't recall any Japanese developers doing any keynotes this a year but its still pretty interesting stuff.

Valve Founder Gabe Newell "A view in the next step of the industry"

Sledgehammer Game's David Schofield "The art of Inspiration"

Telltale's Dan Conners on "Episodic Gaming"

Thatgamecompany's Jenpova Chen "Theories Behind Journey"

Quantic Dream's David Cage "The Peter Pan Syndrome: The Industry that refused to Grow up"

Microsoft Studios/343 Industries Kiki Wolfkill and Frank O'Conner "Changing the universe- three for three".

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kkslider5552000

2. Posted:

The only 2 things I have to say:

1. The entire Journey speech is phenomenal.
2. Jim Sterling hates David Cage. Jim Sterling HAAAATES David Cage. I do at least agree with him that he would be laughed out of every other medium for writing quality.

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shingi_70

3. Posted:

About to watch the Journey one next.

Right now watching the Halo ones which I find interesting but disagree on with a few points.

Will elboarte after I get out of the shower.

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Void

4. Posted:

Sony_70 wrote:

Quantic Dream's David Cage "The Peter Pan Syndrome: The Industry that refused to Grow up"

I stopped watching at about 2:30, he just called Pokemon a kiddy game, or a casual game.
Is that guy an idiot?

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kkslider5552000

5. Posted:

Void wrote:

Sony_70 wrote:

Quantic Dream's David Cage "The Peter Pan Syndrome: The Industry that refused to Grow up"

I stopped watching at about 2:30, he just called Pokemon a kiddy game, or a casual game.
Is that guy an idiot?

A genius idiot but yes.

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Bankai

6. Posted:

Void wrote:

Sony_70 wrote:

Quantic Dream's David Cage "The Peter Pan Syndrome: The Industry that refused to Grow up"

I stopped watching at about 2:30, he just called Pokemon a kiddy game, or a casual game.
Is that guy an idiot?

I dont think it is that surprising that a guy who has dedicated his career to developing and improving narrative in games would not be a fan of Pokemon.

Doesn't make him an idiot. He's just coming from a different attitude towards games to Game Freak.

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Morpheel

7. Posted:

Pokemon is a game designed for kids and casual RPG fans with enough depth to be enjoyed by older, less casual gamers.

I think that is the reason so many people like it.

Edited on by Morpheel

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OptometristLime

8. Posted:

His ability to state the obvious is truly visionary.

Miyamoto on his desire to focus more on the (hard)core Nintendo fan.

[The casual] attitude is, ‘okay, I am the customer. You are supposed to entertain me.’ [...] and to me it’s kind of a pathetic thing.

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Retro_on_theGo

9. Posted:

Morphtroid wrote:

Pokemon is a game designed for kids and casual RPG fans with enough depth to be enjoyed by older, less casual gamers.

I think that is the reason so many people like it.

That's actually exactly correct. Even Masuda (or if not him someone did.) said the prime target is the younger demographic but there's enough underlying depth to keep adult fans happy. That's why I like it.

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shingi_70

10. Posted:

Yes but David Cage is referring that from a narrative perspective most Nintendo games are childish. (Which in the ,majority of their games is kind of the point)

His argument makes a ton of sense but there is room for both types of games.

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Bankai

11. Posted:

Sony_70 wrote:

Yes but David Cage is referring that from a narrative perspective most Nintendo games are childish. (Which in the ,majority of their games is kind of the point)

His argument makes a ton of sense but there is room for both types of games.

I can only think of one Nintendo franchise with a genuinely mature storyline.

I don't mean 'mature' in the sense of blood and swears and sex and such. I mean 'mature' as in a plot with intensity of theme and philosophy or a plot that tries to push narrative boundaries.

Nintendo is like the J.K Rowling of the games industry, in other words. Making bubblegum pop entertainment that everyone of any age can enjoy, but it's hardly fine dining.

Metroid is thematically very much a watered-down riff on the Aliens series, Fire Emblem is boy's pulp fantasy, and even Xenoblade is a well-crafted but very traditional story. Unique setting aside Xenoblade is very much a game that spells out every little detail on what's going on.

It's a contract to the glorious ambiguity of a game like Dark Souls, or the moral intensity of Heavy Rain. Nintendo doesn't engage with those deeper themes.

Except for Zelda. Somehow the Zelda series has managed to build all this hidden meaning and such in. Fun read for anyone that cares about the deeper side of games: http://www.amazon.com/Legend-Zelda-Philosophy-Therefore-Popul...

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Retro_on_theGo

12. Posted:

^ That book seems to have VERY mixed reactions. Doesn't seem very appealing.

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Bankai

13. Posted:

Retro_on_theGo wrote:

^ That book seems to have VERY mixed reactions. Doesn't seem very appealing.

"Zelda fanchildren" pretty much sums up the majority of the bad reactions.

Those of us who are mentally well-adjusted realised going in that this book was going to be a fairly simple and entertaining look at the Zelda games from a philisophical perspective. Not a tribute to the Zelda games.

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scrubbyscum999

14. Posted:

Bankai wrote:

Sony_70 wrote:

Yes but David Cage is referring that from a narrative perspective most Nintendo games are childish. (Which in the ,majority of their games is kind of the point)

His argument makes a ton of sense but there is room for both types of games.

I can only think of one Nintendo franchise with a genuinely mature storyline.

I don't mean 'mature' in the sense of blood and swears and sex and such. I mean 'mature' as in a plot with intensity of theme and philosophy or a plot that tries to push narrative boundaries.

Nintendo is like the J.K Rowling of the games industry, in other words. Making bubblegum pop entertainment that everyone of any age can enjoy, but it's hardly fine dining.

Metroid is thematically very much a watered-down riff on the Aliens series, Fire Emblem is boy's pulp fantasy, and even Xenoblade is a well-crafted but very traditional story. Unique setting aside Xenoblade is very much a game that spells out every little detail on what's going on.

It's a contract to the glorious ambiguity of a game like Dark Souls, or the moral intensity of Heavy Rain. Nintendo doesn't engage with those deeper themes.

Except for Zelda. Somehow the Zelda series has managed to build all this hidden meaning and such in. Fun read for anyone that cares about the deeper side of games: http://www.amazon.com/Legend-Zelda-Philosophy-Therefore-Popul...

As someone who has read quite a bit of philosophy almost all the main questions they ask can be applied to a TON of games, not just Zelda. I don't know how you managed to get Zelda to become the exception to your little rule. Xenoblade is traditional but Zelda isn't or something more? Really? You know that a huge part of games is GAMEPLAY and a game can be great because of a story and can be great without it. I guess I'm mostly annoyed you can say Xenoblade is nowhere near as deep as Zelda. I mean, I would at least say they're the same. That's an 'at least'.

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Bankai

15. Posted:

Trainer_DJ wrote:

Bankai wrote:

Sony_70 wrote:

Yes but David Cage is referring that from a narrative perspective most Nintendo games are childish. (Which in the ,majority of their games is kind of the point)

His argument makes a ton of sense but there is room for both types of games.

I can only think of one Nintendo franchise with a genuinely mature storyline.

I don't mean 'mature' in the sense of blood and swears and sex and such. I mean 'mature' as in a plot with intensity of theme and philosophy or a plot that tries to push narrative boundaries.

Nintendo is like the J.K Rowling of the games industry, in other words. Making bubblegum pop entertainment that everyone of any age can enjoy, but it's hardly fine dining.

Metroid is thematically very much a watered-down riff on the Aliens series, Fire Emblem is boy's pulp fantasy, and even Xenoblade is a well-crafted but very traditional story. Unique setting aside Xenoblade is very much a game that spells out every little detail on what's going on.

It's a contract to the glorious ambiguity of a game like Dark Souls, or the moral intensity of Heavy Rain. Nintendo doesn't engage with those deeper themes.

Except for Zelda. Somehow the Zelda series has managed to build all this hidden meaning and such in. Fun read for anyone that cares about the deeper side of games: http://www.amazon.com/Legend-Zelda-Philosophy-Therefore-Popul...

You know that a huge part of games is GAMEPLAY and a game can be great because of a story and can be great without it.

What has that got to do with philosophy?

Xenoblade is surface level. Everything in that game is spelled out for players in flashing neon lighting. There's no puzzling through deeper themes, there's no being engaged on an intellectual level.

That's not to say Xenoblade is a bad game (certainly I prefer it to modern Zelda games), but it's an emotional, surface-level engagement. The themes of Zelda games certainly take more work to really get to the bottom of them.

If you'd really studied philosophy you would understand the difference there, surely.

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WaLzgi

16. Posted:

Gameplay has very little to do with the themes behind the story...

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scrubbyscum999

17. Posted:

Bankai wrote:

What has that got to do with philosophy?

Xenoblade is surface level. Everything in that game is spelled out for players in flashing neon lighting. There's no puzzling through deeper themes, there's no being engaged on an intellectual level.

That's not to say Xenoblade is a bad game (certainly I prefer it to modern Zelda games), but it's an emotional, surface-level engagement. The themes of Zelda games certainly take more work to really get to the bottom of them.

If you'd really studied philosophy you would understand the difference there, surely.

Doesn't change the fact that the questions the book was asking could be used for a ton of games. Also, just because the philosophical element isn't as direct doesn't make the concepts any deeper. That's like when some philosophers are super indirect about the concepts they talk about. Yeah, you can get down to the point of the matter but was all that metaphor or having the idea come in some sort of dialogue really necessary?

LordLzGlad wrote:

Gameplay has very little to do with the themes behind the story...

...Ok. And...
I don't know get what you are saying. Nobody said they were. I said games are often about gameplay and games can be good because of a good story but it is not necessary. The Last Story gameplay wise isn't all that great, but the story made the game memorable. Super Mario World has the most basic story ever, but the gameplay and level design of that game make it a masterpiece in my opinion.

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V8_Ninja

18. Posted:

Having watched the David Cage speech, it almost amazing how easily his last points can be turned against him.

David Cage: "We need to establish new relations with Hollywood!"

Every Cynic Ever: "Why should we even try when you freely admit that games are fundamentally different than movies?"

David Cage: "Reviewer's need to stop being terrible and shallow!"

Every Cynic Ever: "What, so they can 'Appreciate' all your 'Subtlety' and 'Nuance' which are 100% undoubtedly in your games?"

David Cage: "Video game players need to stop buying crap!"

Every Cynic Ever: "...So that they can buy your games, which are proven to NOT be crap?"

Also, David Cage states that the video games aren't "Mass Market". Rovio would like to talk to you, sir.

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Bankai

19. Posted:

Trainer_DJ wrote:

Bankai wrote:

What has that got to do with philosophy?

Xenoblade is surface level. Everything in that game is spelled out for players in flashing neon lighting. There's no puzzling through deeper themes, there's no being engaged on an intellectual level.

That's not to say Xenoblade is a bad game (certainly I prefer it to modern Zelda games), but it's an emotional, surface-level engagement. The themes of Zelda games certainly take more work to really get to the bottom of them.

If you'd really studied philosophy you would understand the difference there, surely.

Doesn't change the fact that the questions the book was asking could be used for a ton of games. Also, just because the philosophical element isn't as direct doesn't make the concepts any deeper. That's like when some philosophers are super indirect about the concepts they talk about. Yeah, you can get down to the point of the matter but was all that metaphor or having the idea come in some sort of dialogue really necessary?

LordLzGlad wrote:

Gameplay has very little to do with the themes behind the story...

...Ok. And...
I don't know get what you are saying. Nobody said they were. I said games are often about gameplay and games can be good because of a good story but it is not necessary. The Last Story gameplay wise isn't all that great, but the story made the game memorable. Super Mario World has the most basic story ever, but the gameplay and level design of that game make it a masterpiece in my opinion.

You seem to be getting confused between me saying a game has virtually no meaning and me saying a game is bad.

I wasn't commenting on Xenoblade's quality as a game. I was pointing out that it's about as philosophically deep as a baby's pool.

In fact, I know there are plenty of gamers out there that quite specifically don't like thinking while they play games and would get upset if the meaning of Xenoblade was more ambiguous or less easy to digest.

But that doesn't change the fact it's not Dark Souls, or Nier, or Ni No Kuni, or Pandora's Tower.

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shingi_70

20. Posted:

Games a being different from movies doesn't mean there can't be input between the two mediums. For examples look at how Lucasfilm, Skywalker sound, and Ondiustrial light and magic are working on Star Wars 1313 as if it were the next movie or show.

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