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Topic: Depth in gaming.

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Stuffgamer1

bro2dragons wrote:

@Stuffygamer and WaltzingElf: honestly, i'm not sure what either of those are....

Neither do we, hence the sarcasm.

EDIT: Oops, misreading-caused reply. Explanation below.

Edited on by Stuffgamer1

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bro2dragons

ah. well, according to the sage bird that pokes its beak around these forums from time to time, they're books. so now we all know.

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Stuffgamer1

Oh, wait...I misread your post. I thought you said you weren't sure you wanted either of those.

Yeah, I watched the BBC miniseries of Bleak House, and it was AMAZING! It would suck as a video game, though.

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Bankai

Wuthering Heights is a real classic of literature, and one of the most important - and popular - books ever written.

It grieves me that people don't know and haven't read it, but they can recite Harry Potter/ Twilight/ Dan Brown by heart. But that's a separate issue

I've yet to see a game offer real depth in terms of plot. Not to be mistaken for quality, as games like Final Fantasy etc typically are well scripted, but real depth as in literature (read: not Twilight) is elusive. I suspect impossible, as a properly nuanced story almost by nature needs to be entirely non-linear so the author can ensure the reader doesn't miss anything, and games by default need a degree of non-linerarity.

Stuffgamer1

@WaltzElf: You mean stories need to be linear, and games are non-linear. Little mistake there.

I know not of this "Dan Brown," have no interest whatsoever in Twilight, and enjoy but am not obsessed with Harry Potter. I really don't read very much in general, except for game news and NLife forums. I have not read "Wuthering Heights," but that should come as no surprise given what I've just said. Is there a superb BBC Miniseries available?

Like I said, the Ace Attorney games DO have real depth to their stories, mostly because they are, as you said, linear. But it's the GOOD kind of linear that still leaves you having to figure out what to do as you go.

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Edwin

I think that games should have as much depth as possible, BUT...

Only if this does not take away from the GAMEPLAY experience. I don't like it when there are too many cutscenes in a game or if the cutscenes are too long. So, I would like to very deep games that are able to express their depth without constantly interrupting the gameplay.

Edwin

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bro2dragons

@WaltzElf: i had heard of the book, but did not know who wrote it or what it was about or any of that. which is actually surprising, because i am NOT in that niche of readers you mentioned (i abhor twilight, and am no friend to potter, and like, Stuffy, know nothing of the Dan Brown of which you speak). i read almost entirely classic literature of a wide variety, though i do throw in a little contemporary when it is good and (watch for keyword) provacative. and like i said, a DEEP story CAN be done in a game, such as in Resident Evil 4. it is subtle, but compare it back to back with Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness, and see if you can't draw some thematic similarities... and then tell me which one made the deeper impact on you. RE4, if you dig beneath the "save the president's daughter and defeat the evil cult-dudes" story, and you collect and read all the files and whatnot, you get a truly chilling picture of the evils of human greed and oppression and racism and the search for power and wealth and fame. and it's not the only game that attempts and succeeds at such aims, either.

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V8_Ninja

I feel as the gaming business evolves, people will outright DEMAND stories that are morally challenging and engrossing, so you're basically screwed about which sort of storytelling "genre" you should pick. However, I fear that games might become storytelling gateways instead of interactive pieces of technology to enjoy yourself with. I don't want the story of a game to be the MEAT of the game. It's sorta Okay for RPGs since they were always meant to be games with twisting stories, but I don't want the next blockbuster game to be an "interactive story", I want it to be a freaking game!

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bro2dragons

i think there's room for both, V8. the next Mario definitely doesn't need to challenge your perceptions on the morality of abortion, as Peach struggles with what to do with Luigi's illegitimate child, and how to let Mario know. But i certainly think that the next great blockbuster can have incredible gameplay, and have a truly thought provoking storyline woven into it that makes you stop and think after beating the game, instead of just going, "well dang, it's over. now i need to go get a new game."

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Mabbit

look at Final Fantasy 4. that is my all time favorite storyline for a video game. it is one of those games that makes you feel sad, like when when your two little magician teammates turn into stone to save the rest of you, and it makes you feel heroic, like when you need to face the evil side of yourself in an epic battle. that for me ultimately makes a good game story

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bro2dragons

good story, yes, briunj04. deep... iffy. but yes, i do still agree there needs to be more well thought-out, and well written plotlines in games, what i really want are games with challenging thematic depth that really make you think, rather than just feel. games can be the best medium at producing emotions when done correctly, as you are IN the game world... but they tend to shy away from generating thought.

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StarBoy91

If you look at it in a way, SoulBlazer kinda has a deep tone in story (in a way). The whole controlling a character who can talk to animals and trees and goes in creatures' dreams is a very neat concept.

And, I suppose, Secret of Mana has an exceptional plot as well (though I've yet to conquer the Dark Lich!).

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Stuffgamer1

That's not why I would say Soul Blazer has a deep story...that's really more because it deals with the potential ramifications of inane greed, along with the humanity of a spiritual being (the main character). And the interactions between Dr. Leo and his daughter. But not how you can talk to animals and enter dreams...that does not a deep story make.

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StarBoy91

Sorry, I thought it did.

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bro2dragons

@Starboy: we're talking about deep as in thoughtful, philosophical material worth contemplating. things that help to shape your worldview. not just interesting plot angles and story mechanics. it does sound interesting, though.

“I am a brother to dragons and a companion to owls." Job:30:29
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Mabbit

Chicken+Brutus wrote:

For universal edification/personal betterment:
[youtube:y8p0JKL1Y9Y]

Thought THOSE were bad? you aint seen nothing yet
[youtube:ibK0Nj0sjyU]

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StarBoy91

Isn't there this one bad quote?
"Get offa mah cloud!" Cripes, what have I said?

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cheetahman91

Yeah, I can't see how you two both forgot about these:
[youtube:Y4SLjLen7-c]

Edited on by cheetahman91

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StarBoy91

@cheetah - I think my ears are bleeding......................from the bad voice acting.
Thanks for sharing.

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