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Topic: Death of an industry

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Bankai

21. Posted:

I like you Chrono. Write for me. Profit in free games. That'll fix your own problem in acquiring games before the entire industry collapses and we're all stuck playing iOS minigames.

I'm serious about the writing bit though. Mel Gibson thing aside, you're awesome and I wanna publish you.

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WaLzgi

22. Posted:

Another problem I'm noticing is Steam itself. The company doesn't seem to be doing well, so perhaps those "dirt cheap" bundles won't last must longer.

But yes, all of this is true :(

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Bankai

23. Posted:

I'm honestly surprised that people missed the basic logic behind the following:

Bigger budgets + lower prices for consumers = bad idea.

And yet that is exactly what happened with the games industry. It's not sustainable by any economic theory that you throw at it.

I remain a strong advocate of the idea of gaming transitioning to a premium hobby. Put prices up for consoles and games, have less customers, but have a higher percentage of lucrative customers. It may mean budgets for games need to drop down a little, but if there's more margin in the industry then fewer developers will go bust the moment their game fails to hit ridiculously inflated sales expectations.

The games industry is so busy trying to sell stuff to people that buy hardware and then only buy second hand/ pirate games that it's shooting itself in the foot.

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Jaz007

24. Posted:

I think the next gen console barrier is a great point. When the PS5 comes out and I'm an adult I could definitely see myself having a hard time coughing up the money for it especially with the $60 games to with it. Lets hope the next console cycle
is a long one (I mean longer than ever before). Lets also pray your wrong.

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kkslider5552000

25. Posted:

I'm confused, this isn't about Animal Crossing obsession. Who are you?

Ok, but seriously this is fairly well done and I mostly agree with it but I have a couple of...rebuttals I guess...

1.

Chrono_Cross wrote:

(Spec Ops The Line, Heavy Rain, Metal Gear Solid, Journey, etc.), we’re too busy playing the latest Mario or Halo to care and the heart and soul of those games, sell maybe a million copies if that.

When using examples of games not being successful, make sure to mention games that were successful. I guess I'll grant you Spec Ops the Line (though I'm expecting it to become more popular the more time goes on) and Journey because it bankrupt thatgamecompany. But Heavy Rain was, as far as I'm aware, a very popular game that's got Ellen Page for its spiritual successor and Metal Gear Solid is one of the more popular series around.
2. The movie industry is a gigantic example of why stupid games selling more than more deeper games is not the end of the world. The only reason to think this is an issue would be because video gaming can not even hope to have something 1/10 as important as the Oscars right now. And you basically make that point a bit more arguable if you point out successful games like Metal Gear and Heavy Rain.
3. Comparing new copies of Chrono Trigger to an old tennis racket is dumb. Chrono Trigger still costs a lot because people will pay that much to buy Chrono Trigger. You can get it for 8 bucks on Virtual Console anyway and you can download it elsewhere, which is the future of gaming anyway.

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Lan

26. Posted:

Just build a gaming PC and only spend 5 bucks on your games.

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Chrono_Cross

27. Posted:

Bankai wrote:

I like you Chrono. Write for me. Profit in free games. That'll fix your own problem in acquiring games before the entire industry collapses and we're all stuck playing iOS minigames.

I'm serious about the writing bit though. Mel Gibson thing aside, you're awesome and I wanna publish you.

I've extensively enjoyed iOS games and would never consider solely playing the minigame collections.

But yeah, I would love to write for you and if it makes you feel any better, it took me 45 minutes to write this and yes, I wrote this as I went along. Omitting the edits, of course.

and what's wrong with being a Mel Gibson fan? :-(

kkslider5552000 wrote:

I'm confused, this isn't about Animal Crossing obsession. Who are you?

I really should have squeezed that in somewhere, lol.

1- When using examples of games not being successful, make sure to mention games that were successful. I guess I'll grant you Spec Ops the Line (though I'm expecting it to become more popular the more time goes on) and Journey because it bankrupt thatgamecompany. But Heavy Rain was, as far as I'm aware, a very popular game that's got Ellen Page for its spiritual successor and Metal Gear Solid is one of the more popular series around.
2. The movie industry is a gigantic example of why stupid games selling more than more deeper games is not the end of the world. The only reason to think this is an issue would be because video gaming can not even hope to have something 1/10 as important as the Oscars right now. And you basically make that point a bit more arguable if you point out successful games like Metal Gear and Heavy Rain.
3. Comparing new copies of Chrono Trigger to an old tennis racket is dumb. Chrono Trigger still costs a lot because people will pay that much to buy Chrono Trigger. You can get it for 8 bucks on Virtual Console anyway and you can download it elsewhere, which is the future of gaming anyway.

1)

I agree, but the successful franchises, or even individual games, are few and far between. The big budget games are usually from Nintendo, Sony, Activision, EA, Square Enix, Microsoft and Konami.

With that, we usually see the same franchises receiving sequels. Examples would be: Final Fantasy, Elder Scrolls, Castlevania, Halo, God of War, Mario, Call of Duty, Battlefield and a select few more.

The thing with Metal Gear Solid, is that it never really caught on. Sure, the fanbase is always growing, but like Metroid, it's not publicized like it could be.

By that I mean, no one knows what a Metal Gear is nor do they care. Developers also don't want to create an in-depth storyline with superb gameplay when they can develop a run-of-the-mill Puzzler or FPS. There's no inspiration of thinking outside the box because the games that do rarely sell don't inspire other developers and when a publisher has ten creative games that are beautifully crafted and none of them make a decent profit, jobs are cut and it's a financial crisis.

As for Heavy Rain, it barely broke the million milestone.

2)

True, there is a lot of crap movies but that audience is immense. The audience gaming doesn't have, do not want to sit down, with a controller and go through two hours of tutorials. No, those people want entertainment they can pop in/stream, and enjoy.

Everybody watches movies. People have been watching movies since the beginning of the 20th century and it's widely accepted as a great source for entertainment of all ages.

3)

That's not dumb. I'm comparing the prices of sports entertainment to gaming entertainment. And your reasoning is flawed.

I have to buy a Wii/Wii U and have access to internet to play a game that costs $8. Not a big deal. Or I could go buy a football and a gatorade bottle for approximately $10 total, and play football with friends, or even go for a jog.

Edited on by Chrono_Cross

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Spoony_Tech

28. Posted:

I was just saying to one of my friends yesterday as a matter of fact that if the Wii U fails it will be a big problem for Nintendo. Not just singling Nintendo out but the PS4 can't fail either. The industry has definitely been heading this way for a while and I've been saying many of the things you had mentioned in your opening post! Changes have to happen and prices can't go up on the next gen games or we will see fewer game sales and that's where all the money is.

I'm married and a father of three. When I was single it was the best systems and just about any game I wanted. Now it comes down to priority and we can only be a one system family and now its a wii. I have a 3ds xl and two of the kids have my hand me down dsi and dsixl's. Games are far a few between and for the kids its limited to birthdays and Christmas. I myself don't have the time anymore for anything but one system really. As much as I want a Wii U the likelihood of that happening is very slim. I'm more then happy with my 3ds as you can see from my signature and nother system will just cut into that for me.

Prices of everyday life are going up and salaries are not in many cases. The economy will never be the same as it was 10 years ago as we as a nation just get further into debt.

Edited on by Spoony_Tech

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Bankai

29. Posted:

Chrono_Cross wrote:

Bankai wrote:

I like you Chrono. Write for me. Profit in free games. That'll fix your own problem in acquiring games before the entire industry collapses and we're all stuck playing iOS minigames.

I'm serious about the writing bit though. Mel Gibson thing aside, you're awesome and I wanna publish you.

I've extensively enjoyed iOS games and would never consider solely playing the minigame collections.

But yeah, I would love to write for you and if it makes you feel any better, it took me 45 minutes to write this and yes, I wrote this as I went along. Omitting the edits, of course.

and what's wrong with being a Mel Gibson fan? :-(

Email me pls (email on website).

Also, nothing. It's just that Mel's no Daniel Craig. ^_^

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Bankai

30. Posted:

Back on topic - there is a simple reality to the games industry that is worth mentioning; there is too much money in the games industry for it to properly collapse.

In 1983 there was the potential that games could just disappear because the industry itself was tiny and managed by a very small group of people. If they had all disappeared, so would the industry. Thankfully Nintendo came in and did the Knight in Shining Armour gig.

But fast forward to 2013, and even if Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft all roll over and folded (and to be fair, that's not as improbable as it would have seemed five years ago), the games industry would continue.

What we're seeing here is a market in transition. It's moving from the old models of big blockbusters, retail sales and franchises to smaller, more nimble companies, mobile gaming platforms, freemium pricing and Cloud services. When you talk about mulit-million and multi-billion companies, transitioning from one business model to a completely different one is obscenely expensive and potentially devastating. Sony's troubles are almost entirely because it has been going through this transition. The reason I actually think that Sony will be ok is because it has now made that transition, is now ready for the new business models, and is still standing. The likes of THQ, Midway and so forth did not. And not every company that is currently out there is to make it. There are going to be more failures.

But the industry is not going away. The money might go to Apple, Ouya and Google rather than Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony, but it's still going to be there. The industry might lose the current "hardcore" gamers who can't stand freemium and Angry Birds, but it's going to find new customers in people who like Angry Birds.

tl;dr; regardless of the economy, there is going to be a games industry in five years, 10 years and 100 years. What it looks like is going to be different in five years, 10 years and 100 years, and who plays games will be different.

But change isn't necessarily a bad thing.

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Jamouse

31. Posted:

I think it's a little early to call it the end of the industry. I mean, a couple of years ago the industry was at its strongest, right.

If it can diminish that quickly then surely it won't take that much to get it going again.

Jamouse

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Chrono_Cross

32. Posted:

Bankai wrote:

Email me pls (email on website).

Also, nothing. It's just that Mel's no Daniel Craig. ^_^

I'll email you tomorrow since I'm at work on my phone.

I don't see the hate for Daniel Craig. He's such a hunk.

Jamouse wrote:

I think it's a little early to call it the end of the industry. I mean, a couple of years ago the industry was at its strongest, right.

If it can diminish that quickly then surely it won't take that much to get it going again.

It's like a pimple. If you keep poking it and it never gets treated, it'll scar.

That's the industry here in America. The economy is getting worse, no jobs and there's high prices on everything you can imagine from food to clothes and anything in between.

If people aren't buying games at full retail prices, companies will lose money.

Edited on by Chrono_Cross

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Odnetnin

33. Posted:

I agree completely that we need to support where the real creativity and originality is coming from. Someday people will get tired of Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed, and if we don't have mature, artistic games to turn to as an industry once we're done with the same old blockbusters, the game industry really is dead.

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Dashtag

34. Posted:

DarkKnight wrote:

I agree completely that we need to support where the real creativity and originality is coming from. Someday people will get tired of Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed, and if we don't have mature, artistic games to turn to as an industry once we're done with the same old blockbusters, the game industry really is dead.

I completely agree with this. We need to support the companies that have new, original ideas for games, and stop only playing games like CoD.

Anyways, no, I never said the economy was going to get better within the next couple years, I said eventually. By eventually, however, I didn't mean a huge amount of time, like 100 years. Yeah, our president has a bad track recond(I have no idea why we re-elected him) butseriously, the economy most likely isn't going to stay bad forever.

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CapnPancakes

35. Posted:

I just saw an article a while ago about how many of these modern FPS multiplayer games are helping in the decline of the industry. I'm not trying to start a CoD hate rant, but the article basically stated that since people can buy a game like Battlefield, Uncharted, or Halo, get an 8 hour campaign, and then unlimited multiplayer, it discourages people from going out and buying more games. Again this was just something I read so take it however you want.

Personally, I do think gaming is getting very expensive especially with the state of the current economy. The reason I only own Nintendo consoles is because I can't afford more than 1 console people. I do buy a lot of used games online because they're cheaper and I missed out on them when they were released but even that isn't cheap sometimes. You can say that not having backwards compatibility or blocking used games is good for the industry as much as you want, but to the average person in this day and age that's a huge deal and not a good one either.

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Amigaengine

36. Posted:

Great read Chrono_Cross, really enjoyed it and agree with everything you said.

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russellohh

37. Posted:

I'd like to point out that GameFly often costs far more then buying the game. At about $15 a month, it would have cost me $160 to beat Skyrim, and about $700 to finish 100% of Oblivion. I bought Skyrim for $35, and Oblivion for $15. If I want to try out a game, I download the demo. If I buy it for $40, beat it twice and will never play it again, it goes back on ebay for $35. If I like it, I keep it forever, something GameFly just can't do.
Chrono Trigger costs $8-20 new, not $100-200. $100-200 is the ebay value for a new copy of the original release- WalMart.com has the DS port for $14, and Nintendo will happily let you download it for $8, supporting the developers along the way.

And that's to say nothing of my Steam purchases - I bought Arkham City in 2012 for $7.50 on Steam, when it currently goes for $30 at BestBuy. These things are hardly breaking the bank. Appealing to a wider audience is what the Wii did. I literally don't know a single family without at least one Wii, but all the elitist Xbox and PS3 fanboys scream that its a sell out.

I appreciate your effort, and your thoughts were interesting. But we can't have overwhelming variety and poor alternatives at the same time, Every Call of Duty sells $200,000,000 in the first week now, regardless of the economy. A generation ago, you were rich if you had an SNES. Or if you had a Genesis. Now, I know few teenagers and young adults who don't have a smart phone, an xbox, a pc, and a wii collecting dust somewhere. Studios go out of business due to mismanagement and terribly spending habits, (6 years to finish Colonial Marine? No Earthbound download in America?)

100 million people own a Wii. 70,000,000 own a PS3. 70,000,000 own an XBox. 120,000,000 own a DS. I don't think anyone considers gaming a "niche hobby" anymore. The media sure thinks gaming is something crazy kids do, but the rest of the country? too busy playing Angry Birds on their ipods, waiting to go home and play Call of Duty.

PC gaming is not the future- people always claim it is, even when Xbox games outsell the PC version 10 to 1.
My $850 computer can't play LA Noire to save its life, but my $99 Xbox 360 Basic can. My $1,200 work computer plays Skyrim slightly better than my $189 PS3, but not 5-times-the-price better. Consoles are far, far cheaper than a gaming PC, even when the games are slightly more expensive. Much of what you said was partially true, but people have been discussing the end of the industry for 30 years now. In a world where any Call of Duty, Angry Birds, and effing Farmville can pull in 300,000,000 in one year.

Edited on by russellohh

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kkslider5552000

38. Posted:

the console market will probably die, but that's just(?) because someday all the cool Super duper future HD graphics games will be able to be played and streamed using incredible handheld devices and console will become increasingly redundant. There's also what I've read about gaming companies not selling games traditionally someday as much as having it be an online service of sorts for their games specifically, which is interesting.

Edited on by kkslider5552000

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IAmNotWill

39. Posted:

3Dash wrote:

DarkKnight wrote:

I agree completely that we need to support where the real creativity and originality is coming from. Someday people will get tired of Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed, and if we don't have mature, artistic games to turn to as an industry once we're done with the same old blockbusters, the game industry really is dead.

I completely agree with this. We need to support the companies that have new, original ideas for games, and stop only playing games like CoD.

Anyways, no, I never said the economy was going to get better within the next couple years, I said eventually. By eventually, however, I didn't mean a huge amount of time, like 100 years. Yeah, our president has a bad track recond(I have no idea why we re-elected him) butseriously, the economy most likely isn't going to stay bad forever.

This has been happening. Indie games do well on Steam, and gain support on things like Kickstarter. They don't get played nearly as much because indie devs can't afford to market their game.

And our president was re-elected because his opponent shot himself in the foot on several occasions. But that's an entire topic for another time on a different website lol

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IAmNotWill

40. Posted:

And another thing. I wish the industry would stop advancing so fast. They are purposely driving up the cost of their own games at an alarming rate. And they wonder why they don't sell as many games lol

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