Topic: Coronavirus outbreak

Well wearing masks seems to help you from getting infected too, but of course with shortage you shouldn't hoard mask and instead try to reuse what you have.

I do hear that wearing three layers of fabric would help, which you'll then wash after 4 hours of use (maximum).

Why do it help? Because they capture the saliva that come out of people when they talk and ensure that the virus that come in contact with you is far less so your immune system can neutralize them instead of overwhelmed :v

(Reminder that Taiwan is aggressively producing mask to around 10 million masks a day)

@Eel Somebody’s gotta buy all the cheap oil and gas! 😛

@darkfenrir From what most scientists over here have told us, it protecting yourself truly is nonsense, for the most part, unless you either use professional masks, which aren't even for sale anymore, or if you change masks approximately every two to three hours, so neither of that is even remotely feasible for most people.

Social distancing and taking all the rules into account, such as not sneezing in the general direction of other people, helps far better to contain the situation, than trying to cover yourself up all the time.

EDIT:

And as far as the immune system immediately "neutralizing" it: we're a LONG way from that happening yet, especially seeing as they're still desperately working on a vaccine, so until then, we all either get minor complaints, or get really sick, and have to hope we can get through it, so better stick to those rules. I haven't worn any face masks until now, and I'm not about to either, and I'm still okay, because I listen to the advice that's been given to me, so I don't go out much, unless I have to, for buying food and so on, and I don't go to places where I could potentially come into contact with multiple people.

@ThanosReXXX not dure about that, it just made sense to me that wearing masks help even if it's not going to completely cut off everything. Yes social distancing is 100% the way, but sometimes you can't and it's better to have extra something to protect your face.

It kind of just logical thinking imo? Normal people don't need crazy mask, but if they wear 3 layers of shirt over their face, certainly they still minimize their exposure if there's any accidents.

@darkfenrir It's not your breath that spreads the virus, it's coughing, so as long as you don't need to cough, or cough in your elbow, you don't need to walk around with a face mask all the time. As mentioned, that's already been confirmed by several renowned scientists over here.

@ThanosReXXX I'm pretty sure it's the saliva, which is still spread around when you are talking.

I remember reading a news about a group of 60-ish choir doing their practice (this is around feb btw) and they are doing all of the recommended guidelines. People don't talk to each other, they are spread apart, tons of sanitizer for everyone etc. End result? Tons of people got sick and one even died I think.

So it seems it's not only cough

@darkfenrir Well, I don't know about you, but I don't spit when I talk, so that's nonsense. And if you don't HAVE the virus, you can talk all you want, but then there'll be nothing to spread to other people.

Think with your head, not with the help of internet pages or what other people tell you.

@ThanosReXXX yeah but do you know about others? I don't spit when I talk either but I always think that it makes sense there's like... Tiny amount of saliva that always got out when you talk. Maybe I'm talking nonsense but bleh, thatcs not my point anyway

I just mean that wearing something protects yourself and so if there's asympomatic (which no one probably knows because not all countries go to check everyone) you'll also be protected

Like what's wrong with wearing a mask?

The virus is spread via respiratory droplets which includes breathing, talking etc, think about when you breath out in the cold you see the moisture floating about in the air.

@ThanosReXXX Conventional wisdom says that masks are to prevent infecting others. CDC kept saying originally that masks don't help, don't use them. Now they're "revising" that saying they should be used for prevention, but that it doesn't have to be N95 masks.

A.K.A. "We're incompetent and never sourced enough masks for a problem so we're going to tell you to not use them so that we have the supply we need for the medical staff, but later we'll tell you that you really should have used them after all." And "Here's the truth we need you to believe today."

It's all theory though because masks have been off shelves for a long time. Sucky thing was I almost bought a pack of like 20 N95s for $10 or so back at Christmas time for a woodworking project I didn't want to inhale the dust for. They couldn't give them away. They were dirt cheap and sold in bulk as just general contractor supplies. Who knew.

As for immune systems neutralizing it - maybe maybe not. They don't know yet why it's more severe in some and asymptomatic or minor in others, and they don't know yet how many people are developing antibodies from minor infections, if any, but that's one path they're exploring. I.E. Could everyone build up resistance to it through small exposure over time to the point that it is far less likely to produce severe results. It is apparently a possible outcome, but that's all that's known about that for now. Apparently some people DO have immune systems that neutralize it, otherwise there wouldn't be asymptomatic cases, and minor symptom cases. The question then is: How did those people develop those antibodies? Minor exposure to this, or exposure to something else that takes the same antibodies?

So we're still 50/50 on the mask yes/no debates (even in the official offices) here.

They're playing with vaccines that may or may not actually be possible, but natural resistance/immunity is still a likely requirement, or outcome, because that's more likely to happen before a vaccine than not, and even with a vaccine, is more likely to be a component before they can pump out and dispense 8M vaccines (which is of course, not going to happen, ever.) One way or another, with or without a vaccine, the population will have to build antibodies from exposure, or from exposure to something similar that triggers the same antibodies.

But @jump has it correct, they have confirmed it aerosolizes via normal breathing. And that it can hang in stagnant air for hours in those microdroplets. They have also discovered that it might actually be most contagious 2-3 days BEFORE symptoms. A.K.A. the people coughing and sneezing may in fact be LESS contagious than the seemingly healthy people that don't know they have it yet. Symptoms start precisely because the immune system is finally activating to its presence. That's the really nightmarish part. It's not the visibly sick that are the most potentially dangerous. It's EVERYONE ELSE.

@darkfenrir Nothing wrong with it by default, but far as I'm concerned, I'd rather not when it's not necessary, and numbers and how things are going over here where I live, seem to point out that this is indeed the case. The largest amount of confirmed research definitely does point to it being more a preventive measure for others, not to protect yourself, as I already initially said.

@NEStalgia It's the general, official rule here, from our own CDC, so we're not wearing masks, unless we're working in health care or have to do with sick people in other ways. So, I haven't been wearing one for the last couple of weeks, and I don't expect to be wearing one ever.

As for my breath comment: I should have worded that differently, but I stick to what I said, which is that if you don't HAVE the virus, there's nothing to spread, so I could be standing two inches away from you, breathing into your face, micro-droplets and all, but ab-so-lute-ly NOTHING would happen to you, other than you possibly/probably being grossed out by somebody else's hot breath on your face...

So, I'd need to be sick or carrying, and THEN breathing or sneezing in your general direction, for it to become problematic to the extent that it would matter. And that is what I meant to say, so in that respect, breath is irrelevant, because it's only a carrier if the person is already infected, in which case it doesn't really make a difference whether that person coughs, spits or breathes.

As for the whole immune system neutralizing it: in the short term, or like how some seem to visualize it, that's just not biologically possible. As the scientists explained, this is a new virus strain, and the immune system simply doesn't know what to do with it yet, so all it can do is create anti-bodies, but that's only half of the story, because the immune system does that by default, but that doesn't mean that all of these anti-bodies are also useful against the symptoms.

You'll need to "suffer" the virus entirely, in some shape or form, to have created (enough of) the right anti-bodies, and to have the body create a decent enough defense, from which vaccines can then be made, and all of that is going to take months, if not a year or more. We're quite far from being out of the woods, my friend...

Welp I’m a new passenger on the unpaid furlough train. Gonna use the time to work on coding and astronomy projects, oh and some video games. I want to feel bad but I was looking for a new job (they weren’t as advertised in the interview process and I don’t get paid enough to fix company culture) so at least I can collect a check while I do it.

@ThanosReXXX if you're standing 2 inches from my face breathing on me, i can guarantee you something is going to happen to you......

But regardless our cdc changed their minds and are still right, more or less admitting saying no before was just to ration masks. The officially recommend everyone wear a "cloth mask" when out now as of a day or 2 ago. It may be preventative as much as anything. You COULD have the virus right now but won't know for 2 weeks, spreading it by breathing all the while... So it's still a largely preventative measure since the most infectious people ot all won't know to cover unless everyone always covers.

As for antibodies, theu are indeed looking into people building resistances from minor infection rather than full blown infection, and or from done other diseases (i.e. "novel may not be that novel"). Doesnt mean it'll amount to anything, like with seasonal questions, but it could. They're starting to approve antibody tests for that purpose.

But at the rate of spread, the odds of everyone not having had it in the next year and a half to 2 years seems impossible without converting all of society into a complete commune welfare system where most people live on rations and don't work ever. I feel like the idea of a vaccine is just a positivity carrot... Were not going to make it that long without it running through the population at which point the vaccine becomes largely irrelevant until the next batch. And that all assumes a vaccine is possible at all. It's still unknown. Even I can't hermit indefinitely. It'll get out. Heck even Wuhan (sort of) unlocked today.

@NEStalgia I saw that article about the tigers too. It is worrying. If it can be spread by animals then we are in serious trouble - and I dread to think what will start happening to the animals too. People are likely to, at best, start mass dumping them at the pound, at worse just butchering them. But that would just be needlessly cruel as the many stray cats and dogs would mean murdering your pets would have no benefit and just be needlessly cruel.

@Heavyarms55
Chinese peoples should throw away the false tradition.
No more cat /dog / wild animals slaughter just only for delicacy matter.
They should consider vegetarian menu to be healthy.

@Anti-Matter Please stop spreading that anti-Chinese slander. It's not accurate. And a vegetarian lifestyle isn't a viable option to the poor, of which China has a large amount. Hunting is a needed part of life for them. It's that or go hungry. The gap between the rich and poor in China is monstrously huge. On one hand you have people in the cities living with all the modern conveniences of life that you'll see around the world, and then you go to some of the rural villages and you might as well be going back to the 1800s. Peasant farmers with almost no money to their name stuck living in communal homes with 12 different families.

Save your criticism for a government that allows its people to live under such conditions. The regular people of China do not deserve the hatred they are getting right now. This virus is not their fault.

@Heavyarms55 yeah, originally they said it wasn't possible, yet now, here it is. And it's several tigers... So it's just as infectious. So far they're saying cats can but dogs and birds can't... But not long ago they said no animal can....

@NEStalgia The way the articles I read worded it, they said there was no evidence that cats/dogs/brids etc could spread it. I read that as "we're overwhelmed and haven't had the time to run those tests yet"

If those types of animals can spread the virus, then the isolation really is pointless. You can't quarantine the birds.

Just because you are privileged enough to judge doesn't mean you should