Topic: Concerning Hobbits, Dwarves, Kings, Thrones and Legend

Out of curiosity what genre would you put the Star Wars films in then?

They're fantasy. There isn't a single word of science in those scripts.

@WaltzElf, I sometimes feel the same way about Star Wars.

I don't actually deny that Star Wars is sci-fi but it is more science fantasy then traditional sci-fi. I've watched various documentaries on the History Channel and PBS Nova in regards to the subject of Star Wars and it's a very touchy one to say none the less as everyone in the field of science, philosophy and academia seems to agree that Star Wars is part religious, part science fiction and part fantasy. I think that in general the lines are beginning to blur between what we've known in the past and what is the accepted rule in the world today.

Things like Spore, Halo and Star Trek are what most would accept as science fiction I think but I really don't know to say. I want to believe beyond science fiction personally as do many others, hence the reason the SciFi channel changed their name from SciFi Channel to SyFy Channel as the president of the company claims "that science fiction is no longer science fiction but something that we all can believe in". Plus, Churches and various men I've heard on NPR are beginning to say that faith and science cannot exist without the other.

Star Wars is a western.

I saw a critic make that argument. Was a really good read.

I don't actually deny that Star Wars is sci-fi but it is more science fantasy then traditional sci-fi. I've watched various documentaries on the History Channel and PBS Nova in regards to the subject of Star Wars and it's a very touchy one to say none the less as everyone in the field of science, philosophy and academia seems to agree that Star Wars is part religious, part science fiction and part fantasy. I think that in general the lines are beginning to blur between what we've known in the past and what is the accepted rule in the world today.

I've never seen an academic claim Star Wars was sci fi. If you take Wikipedia's definition of Sci Fi (not the most reliable source, but a reasonable enough one for the sake of argument): "Science fiction is a genre of fiction dealing with the impact of imagined innovations in science or technology, often in a futuristic setting."

There is no impact of science or technology on the worlds in Star Wars - with the sole exception of the Death Star (and if that makes it a sci fi, then the catapaults in Lord of the Rings make that film sci fi as well). The real "impact" focii is the Force. And the Force is magic, not science or technology. Fantasy film. QED.

That said. I quite liked the "Star Wars is a Western" reading of the films. Creative, but more believeable than a claim it's sci fi.

Wait...I thought that James Cameron's Avatar was a western. How about it George? Cowboys vs Aliens?

Avatar is a Western for sure. Once again - there's actually no science in that film. If it wasn't for the fact it was set on an alien planet, no one would even think "sci fi."

However, it's all about the frontier, which is a very Western theme.

@WaltzElf, I seriously agree with you in regards to Cameron's spectacular and masterful Avatar. It is more of a Western than anything else but I'd have to disagree on the matter that there wasn't any science in it. I actually thought that there was quite a bit of science embedded within the film. The whole idea of creating an 'Avatar' of a whole and entirely different living species to transplant ones own body to is indeed very scientific and highly sophisticated. Wired Magazine and scientist like Michio Kaku all praised Cameron for his work of splendid 'science fiction' and 'environmental awareness'.

I think that J.C's Avatar is very much a 'man for all times' as the film is an allegory of the struggles of the American Indian against greedy land snatchers from England, and at the same time much like Pixar's Wall-E, Cameron's Avatar serves as a moral mirror of of greedy man vs the helpless environment of Earth which we all call home and yet we damage and pollute it.

All in all, what we are seeing here is a transition of what we used to know of genres in the past to something new as writers and artist continue to push the boundaries a bit further and further. What we knew as the sci-fi genre of yesterday isn't the sci-fi genre of tomorrow. I think that Gene Roddenberry was the first to begin adjusting the definition of science fiction as he referred to Star Trek as 'cowboys in space'. We know that the pioneers referred to the 'Western' part of America as the 'Final Frontier' and Roddenberry took that concept and definition and used it for the cosmic blackness of space referring to the heavenly void as 'Space: The Final Frontier'.

Now, the upcoming Daniel Craig/ Harrison Ford movie 'Cowboys and Aliens' has me really concerned for the fate of the sci-fi genre as we've come to know and love it. Cowboys and Aliens is literally crossing the boundaries between a 'Western' Cowboy movie and the tender flowerbed of 'Science Fiction'.

I haven't seen Avatar, and I don't particularly care about that part of the discussion (though describing it as a 'space western' could fit the description of such), but what are you talking about? Star Trek is about as science fiction as it gets. Remember that back in the days of TOS, he was directly competing with westerns, so him describing TOS as a 'Wagon Train to the stars' would've been appropriate, but i don't read those statements as him actually calling TOS a western. I think he was just using those terms to describe his show to people who wouldn't have seen the like before, like describing a new game by comparing it to ones that are already out.

cough Dances with Wolves cough Pocahontas cough

TBD, you're very correct. It is true that Roddenberry marketed it that way due to the fact that Cowboys were all the rage on television at that time, which is as you said is like describing a new game by comparing it to ones released before it.

I wasn't saying that Roddenberry was trying to make Sci-Fi different as in totally and completely different. Yes, I to, consider the Star Trek franchise to be genuine science fiction at it's best. However, the old TOS show wasn't your average sci-fi experience. I agree with J.J. Abrams when he says 'the original Star Trek show was corny'. I think the later Star Trek entries like Star Trek The Wrath of Kahn and Star Trek The Undiscovered Country are far more sensible and believable as Science Fiction. Something like 2001 A Space Odyssey, Voltron and The Day The Earth Stood Still are the kind of sci-fi things that most of us think of when we start to talk about sci-fi as opposed to the kind of cowboy/ alien mash-up that Cameron has given us in Avatar, of course all of this is in my own, humble and frail personal opinion.

Still TBD, I think you should check out Cameron's Avatar. You might like it. It is a very compelling and heart moving story and that's not even mentioning all the stunning visuals and special effects. Plus, romance and compassion between human and alien is at it's best in Avatar.

Anyway, to get back on topic with the discussion of Middle Earth and high fantasy here is a video hosted by Peter Jackson from the Hobbit-hole of Bilbo Baggins.

Rainbow Bridge from the upcoming Thor film.

That's the new Spider Man. Yes, I said the new Spider Man because no, that isn't Peter Parker in the suit.

Well one of my questions for The Hobbit has finally been answered.

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2011/04/22/the-hobbit-ian-holm-is-...

Now if they would just say whos doing the voice of Smaug.

So will Bilbo Baggins Senior be narrating the film as was doing in opening scenes of The Fellowship of the Ring?

Best trailer of all time. Ever.

Well it's official Narnia: The Magical's Nephew has been greenlit!
Source: http://www.narniafans.com/archives/12039/

Oh, and here is an image of 3D Gandalf from Mr. Kellen's Twitter account. I guess that means that the Hobbit will be in 3D afterall.

Even Wizards wanna have a piece of 3D tech eh?

Lol Gandalf in 3D shades, now I've seen it all >.>

Well looks like Orlando Bloom will be back as Legolas in the Hobbit.

http://collider.com/hobbit-orlando-bloom/93365/

That's good news. I think Bloom was one of the best casts in LOTR. I think it's probably not gonna be more than a cameo, though. Thranduil, Legolas' father, appeared in the book, but not Legolas himself.

LOL @ 3D Gandalf.