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Topic: Be There Any Shakespeare Fans?

Posts 21 to 38 of 38

EvilRegal

Read (and did essays on) Hamlet and Macbeth in 11th grade. Loved both, but Hamlet especially. So many great lines. Not sure if I remember it exactly, but one of my favorites: "you are the Queen, your husband's brother's wife. And would it were not so, you are my mother"! OUCH. And "not where he eats, but where he is eaten, by an edict of worms". Yummy.

Let's attack aggressively, kupo! :D

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sykotek

I have, in the past, been known to occasionally spout "Get thee to a nunn'ry" whilst chatting with the women folk without realizing where it was from. ...the answer is Macbeth Hamlet.
...and I have this on one of my shirts.
Untitled

What is the meaning of life? That's so easy, the answer is TETRIS.

RoyalBlur

theblackdragon wrote:

TokyoRed wrote:

With all of this in mind, I think it quite good that manga is effecting every aspect of our lives.

you say it's great that manga is reaching out to so many people, I find it awful that so many people are too lazy to pick up a damn book or go out and watch some of the most renowned plays ever written be performed by a proper cast. the dumbing down of literary works of art for popularity's sake (as opposed to abridgements for necessity's sake or parodies of the original works) is a horrible thing IMO, and furthermore, if you didn't want us to discuss the manga, why did you even bring it up?

I agree with you on your points blackdragon. It is shameful that some people are to lazy, wait no, not just lazy more like in different in my opinion to things of value. It astounds me that the youth of today are so careless and lack so much mental and intellectual intelligence. William Shakespeare (Sir Francis Bacon) was trying to uplift the minds of his day from the moral decay and intellectual stupor that many of the people of his day had fallen into and I daresay that it would kill him to be awakened from his grave to and to see how depraved the minds of the youth are today. I fear that he'd declare that we were right back in the condition of which he was trying to uplift many from in his time.

Seriously you're right on target blackdragon. There are many people that I've met (mostly young adults and children) who refuse to pick up a book or attend a play. They say that books, magazines, documentaries and plays are "boring, lame, sucky and old fashioned" and that just plain ticks me off. We need to save the youth of today from all of the rap and crap that is bewitching their poor little brains, if they even have any brains to begin with.

BTW I didn't say to "not discuss the manga". I said to move on with the discussion of Shakespeare if only to avoid a strife.

@WaltzElf, thanks for pointing me in the way of that Romeo+Juliet anime, I'll check it out once I'm done with season one of Mobile Suit Gundam and Fantastic Four: World's Greatest Heroes.

@sykotek, that's a great image. Where dids't thou findest that shirt? I'll quell fain to have one myself!

Edited on by RoyalBlur

Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant? Isaiah 42:19

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Xkhaoz

Not much, because over here, people are not as cultured and do not value the theatre. Though I do, and love plays

http://steamcommunity.com/id/xkhaoz

HolyMackerel

@TokyoRed I think you misunderstand Shakespeare a little. He was most definitely targeting the "lowest common denominator" of his time. A lot of the so-called rabble visited The Globe to watch his plays being performed and enjoyed them tremendously, and not because those people were more intelligent than we are today. Ever notice the amount of rowdy toilet-grade humour in his scripts? The blood, the sexual slurs, the insults? Not the most uplifting stuff and also very funny for people of all statures (well, if you understand the language). That's not to say his plays aren't intelligent though - part of Shakespeare's genius was his ability to seamlessly intertwine high concepts with the crude and grotesque.

Also I believe WaltzElf was talking about Baz Luhrmann's excellent film, Romeo + Juliet. I love its modern appropriation of the clash between the Capulets and the Montagues. It's one to check out if you enjoy Shakespeare.

Edited on by HolyMackerel

HolyMackerel

RoyalBlur

HolyMackerel wrote:

@TokyoRed I think you misunderstand Shakespeare a little. He was most definitely targeting the "lowest common denominator" of his time. A lot of the so-called rabble visited The Globe to watch his plays being performed and enjoyed them tremendously, and not because those people were more intelligent than we are today. Ever notice the amount of rowdy toilet-grade humour in his scripts? The blood, the sexual slurs, the insults? Not the most uplifting stuff and also very funny for people of all statures (well, if you understand the language). That's not to say his plays aren't intelligent though - part of Shakespeare's genius was his ability to seamlessly intertwine high concepts with the crude and grotesque.

Also I believe WaltzElf was talking about Baz Luhrmann's excellent film, Romeo + Juliet. I love its modern appropriation of the clash between the Capulets and the Montagues. It's one to check out if you enjoy Shakespeare.

Mackeral, I've watched quite a few documentaries on Shakespeare whose actual name is the grande and crafty "Sir Francis Bacon" and I've learned quite a bit. True, he did combine high concepts with the crude but it was very illustrious. Shakespeare's writings are not daft, they are not petty nor are they low grade, nay, not in the very lest are they low grade. I find his works to be quite beautiful and very much do they require the examination of a thinking mind.

In one documentary, an award winning one which I enjoy viewing it is pointed out by the historians that Shakespeare indeed wanted the "rabble" to come to his play because he felt that if could "educate" them for his cause he had a shot at transforming the world into something quite different. Sir Francis Bacon utilized his Shakespeare self to create the modern English language for his "new world" agenda.

BTW here is a link to said documentary: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5498106693746597344#

Edited on by RoyalBlur

Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant? Isaiah 42:19

My Youtube Page: http://www.youtube.com/user/royalusher

3DS FC: 2234-7146-6576

Twitter.com/ToyKoRedDawN

the_shpydar

Ahem, Francis Bacon =/= William Shakespeare. Yes, there has been conjecture over the years that Bacon was Shakespeare, but it has pretty much been univerally discredited and is not generally accepted even among the usual mainstream "Shakespeare's identity" debates and discussions amongst scholars.

EDIT
@syko
Interesting little footnote on the "nunn'ry" line -- back in the Bard's time, "nunnery" was also slang for a brothel/whorehouse, in addition to the traditional meaning; whether S intended this meaning is often debated, as if he did it would add an extra level of irony to Hamlet's speech to Ophelia.

Edited on by the_shpydar

The Shpydarloggery
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HolyMackerel

@TokyoRed Illustrious? Malapropism much? Well don't get me wrong, I don't think Shakespeare's works are petty or low grade. Just that he clearly never set out to be a highfalutin playwright who only wrote for the upper echelons of society. What he created was sophisticated but contemporary and streetwise, and was always intended for performance to a crowd of people from many social standings. He apparently encouraged his troupe to improvise and play with the crowd in a boisterous, back-and-forth manner. That was part of his appeal and part of his lasting influence on literature.

As the shpydar said, the "real" Shakespeare has yet to be confirmed. That's one more theory onto the pile there. Some theories say he was actually a group of writers, some say a group of women, who wrote under a pseudonym for social legitimacy. Other theories say he was a secret service agent. If his identity is so up in the air then his intentions as a writer are even less certain. Whether he was trying to educate the masses or otherwise, what is known is that he was extremely talented beyond his experience.

@the shpydar I can't help but think the "nunn'ry" double entendre was intentional. Both meanings make sense in the context and, well, it's the sort of thing he would write isn't it?

Edited on by HolyMackerel

HolyMackerel

bro2dragons

Some theories say that man has never landed on the moon. Some propose George Bush orchestrated the 9/11 event because he's a Nazi. Some theories imply Chuck Norris really couldn't beat Bruce Lee in a fight. Personally, I think Shakespeare was a man, and a dang talented one at that. You don't have to be a fan of his works, but if you don't respect him and his accomplishments, I don't believe you can call yourself a writer.

The guy was amazing for his time, the time before it, and the time present. That's all there is to it.

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RoyalBlur

bro2dragons wrote:

Some theories say that man has never landed on the moon. Some propose George Bush orchestrated the 9/11 event because he's a Nazi. Some theories imply Chuck Norris really couldn't beat Bruce Lee in a fight. Personally, I think Shakespeare was a man, and a dang talented one at that. You don't have to be a fan of his works, but if you don't respect him and his accomplishments, I don't believe you can call yourself a writer.

The guy was amazing for his time, the time before it, and the time present. That's all there is to it.

I agree with you and that is why I actually believe that he was Sir Francis Bacon. Indeed Bacon would have used the nunn'ry thing as that was thy type of man he was. The man was amazingly talented and a bit twisted. Shakespeare (Bacon), JRR Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, E.G. White and Eoin Colfer are my most favorite authors.

I hope you guys will watch the documentary of which I provided a link to. That program is very amazing and will even reveal a few secrets about 007 and it's Shakespearean connection.

Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant? Isaiah 42:19

My Youtube Page: http://www.youtube.com/user/royalusher

3DS FC: 2234-7146-6576

Twitter.com/ToyKoRedDawN

the_shpydar

@HolyM
I agree that the "nunn'ry" line was intended that way, but it's not been decisively determined. The line works either way, but the slang version seems much more in line with S's usual word-play stuffs.

Also, you are absolutely correct in describing S's intentions in writing for the "common man", so to speak. That's certainly not to say he dumbed stuff down, but he definitely wrote with the intention of wide acceptance. The deeper stuff in his works was there for those who could appreciate it. To use a VERY broad analogy, it's like when Disney or someone puts in little nuggets of sophisticated humor or references into their kids' films -- it's not there for the general audience (kids), it's there for the select who can appreciate (parents).

@Tokyo
You may think he was Bacon, but it's just simply implausible. Of all the postulated identies, Bacon is a fringe theory, at best, and as i said is widely accepted as being completely unlikely.
PS: Also helpful to remember: Sensationalistic conspiracy theory movies =/= "documentaries".

The Shpydarloggery
She-Ra is awesome. If you believe otherwise, you are clearly wrong.
Urban Champion is GLORIOUS.

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sykotek

@TokyoRed: I got it when it was available for purchase at http://shirt.woot.com during their Shakespeare theme'd contest.
Unfortunately, it is currently not available for purchase since shirt.woot only guarantees shirts to be available for one week before they need to compete with other popular shirts in survival of the most purchased or be destroyed. My girlfriend got this shirt during the same week.
Untitled
Unfortunately, I am one of those people who you have mentioned that prefer to not read anything. The sign of the times. You come to a forum focused on electronic entertainment, what do you expect? =P You will live a happier existence if you don't worry so much about the level of culture everyone else possesses.

@the shpydar, HolyMackerel: Definitely more than meets the eye. Its hidden meaning has definitely been lost as it is not common use to refer to whorehouses as nunn'rys nowadays. Definitely good for those who are first reading Macbeth Hamlet to know. Definitely =D

What is the meaning of life? That's so easy, the answer is TETRIS.

HolyMackerel

@the shpydar I couldn't agree with you more on all counts.

@TokyoRed By 007 you mean the British Secret Service, right? 007 - James Bond - is a fictional character. The Secret Service theory is a pretty well-known and dramatic one but by no means the most widely accepted.

An interesting discussion of Shakespeare's "true identity" can be found at the Reduced Shakespeare Company's podcast here: http://www.reducedshakespeare.com/?p=460 It's a fun, light-hearted podcast episode which covers some of the more probable theories (including Sir Francis Bacon).

bro2dragons wrote:

Personally, I think Shakespeare was a man

Personally I think he was an alien from outer space, so there! But in seriousness, the "group of women" theory has some plausibility. He was a feminist before his time and commented on the equality of women, a topic which wouldn't have been popular (or conceivable?) at the time, particularly for men. Some of his work shows great admiration - even exaltation - of the fairer sex (depending on interpretation) and he managed to cleverly put forth and mask these concepts without causing social uproar. Regardless, he really was ahead of his time in many ways.

sykotek wrote:

Unfortunately, I am one of those people who you have mentioned that prefer to not read anything.

And... just what do you think you're doing right this moment? Also I love that T-shirt design! Shakespeare never came up with a character whose name started with Z, huh... I love his stunned look.

Edited on by HolyMackerel

HolyMackerel

RoyalBlur

sykotek wrote:

@TokyoRed: I got it when it was available for purchase at http://shirt.woot.com during their Shakespeare theme'd contest.
Unfortunately, it is currently not available for purchase since shirt.woot only guarantees shirts to be available for one week before they need to compete with other popular shirts in survival of the most purchased or be destroyed. My girlfriend got this shirt during the same week.
Untitled
Unfortunately, I am one of those people who you have mentioned that prefer to not read anything. The sign of the times. You come to a forum focused on electronic entertainment, what do you expect? =P You will live a happier existence if you don't worry so much about the level of culture everyone else possesses.

@the shpydar, HolyMackerel: Definitely more than meets the eye. Its hidden meaning has definitely been lost as it is not common use to refer to whorehouses as nunn'rys nowadays. Definitely good for those who are first reading Macbeth Hamlet to know. Definitely =D

Woah, I like that. I seriously like that! Please tell that that shirt is still available somewhere, somehow!

BTW HolyMackerel, I really was talking about both in regards to the 007. Thank you for that link.

Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant? Isaiah 42:19

My Youtube Page: http://www.youtube.com/user/royalusher

3DS FC: 2234-7146-6576

Twitter.com/ToyKoRedDawN

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