Yeah, I've got both. Dark Spire is old school wizardry. It is basically a sequel in all but name. It's hard, unforgiving, but a hell of a lot of fun - and you can either play with old school 8-bit music and visuals, or DS-quality art and music.

So basically a more hardcore version of Etrian Odessy. And better, IMO.

Deep Labyrinth is... not as good. I do like the game, but it's very simple, and if you're going in expecting a DS Oblivion you'll be disappointed.

What Deep Labyrinth does well though is tell a good story, despite telling it in tiny, tiny fragments.

Still, it's worth $10-$15.

@Slappy: You're either a really, really high level already, or you're grinding in the wrong place.

@WaltzElf: I tried Dark Spire, but didn't like it nearly as much as Etrian Odyssey. But that's most likely because I don't like Wizardry (having tried my dad's NES copy) or any other similarly-designed games of the period. IMO, EO improved upon those games muchly and DS was kind of a step backward. I guess others agreed, since one has two sequels and the other went bargain bin in two months.

Etrian Odessy had two sequels because it's like, a billion times closer to the kind of traditional JRPG that western audiences lap up.

Wizardry is still going strong in Japan - they just got a new Wizardry game on the PlayStation Network (or, a year old now). And Wizardry is a much longer series than Etrian Odessy.

It's also worth noting that the developers of Dark Spire, Success, don't typically make sequels.

Wizardry in Japan:

• Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord (MZ-2500, X1/turbo, FM-7, FM-77, PC-8801, PC-9801, MSX2, NES, Game Boy Color, WonderSwan Color, Cell phone, C64/C128)
• Wizardry II: The Knight of Diamonds (MZ-2500, X1/turbo, FM-7, FM-77, PC-8801, PC-9801, MSX2, NES, Game Boy Color, C64)
• Wizardry I & II (PC Engine)
• Wizardry III: Legacy of Llylgamyn (X1/turbo, FM-7, FM-77, PC-8801, PC-9801, MSX2, Famicom, Game Boy Color, C64)
• Wizardry IV: The Return of Werdna (X1/turbo, FM-7, FM-77, PC-8801, PC-9801)
• Wizardry III & IV (PC Engine)
• Wizardry V: Heart of the Maelstrom (FM Towns, PC-8801, PC-9801, SNES, PC Engine, C64)
• Wizardry VI: Bane of the Cosmic Forge (FM Towns, PC-9801, 98note, J-3100, SNES)
• Wizardry VI & VII (Sega Saturn)
• Wizardry VII: Crusaders of the Dark Savant (PC-9801, PC-9821, PlayStation)
• Wizardry Nemesis (Microsoft Windows, Sega Saturn, 1996)
• Wizardry: Story of Llylgamyn (SNES, 1999)
• Wizardry: Llylgamyn Saga (Microsoft Windows, PlayStation, Sega Saturn, 2000)
• Wizardry: New Age of Llylgamyn (Microsoft Windows, PlayStation, 2000)

Spin-offs (also Japan)

• Wizardry Gaiden: Suffering of the Queen (Game Boy, 1991)
• Wizardry Gaiden 2: Curse of the Ancient Emperor (Game Boy, 1992)
• Wizardry Gaiden 3: Scripture of the Dark (Game Boy, 1993)
• Wizardry Gaiden 4: Throb of the Demon's Heart (SNES, 1996)
• Wizardry: Dimguil (PlayStation, 2000)
• Wizardry Empire (PlayStation, Game Boy Color, 2000)
• Wizardry Empire II: Fukkatsu no Tsue (PlayStation, Game Boy Color, 2002)
• Wizardry Empire III (PlayStation 2, 2003)
• Wizardry Chronicle (Microsoft Windows)
• Wizardry Summoner (Game Boy Advance, 2001) published by Natsume
• Busin: Wizardry Alternative (Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken Land in North America) (PlayStation 2, 2001)
• Busin 0: Wizardry Alternative Neo (PlayStation 2)
• Wizardry Traditional (Cell phone)
• Wizardry Traditional 2 (Cell phone)
• Wizardry Xth Academy of Frontier (PlayStation 2, 2005)
• Wizardry Asterisk: Hiiro no Fūin (Nintendo DS, 2005)
• Wizardry Gaiden: Prisoners of the Battles (PlayStation 2, 2005)
• Wizardry Summoner (PlayStation 2, 2005)
• Wizardry Xth2 UNLIMITED STUDENT (PlayStation 2, 2006)
• Wizardry Empire III: Haō no Keifu (PSP, 2007)
• Wizardry Torawareshi Tamashii no Meikyū (Dungeon of Imprisoned Souls) (PSN, 2009)
• Wizardry Seimei no Kusabi (Wizardry: Pledge of Life) (DS, 2009)

(a little more than 3 games, I think )

Wizardry in the West:

• Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord (1981)
• Wizardry II: The Knight of Diamonds (1982)
• Wizardry III: Legacy of Llylgamyn (1983)
• Wizardry IV: The Return of Werdna (1986)
• Wizardry V: Heart of the Maelstrom (1988)
• Wizardry VI: Bane of the Cosmic Forge (1990)
• Wizardry VII: Crusaders of the Dark Savant (1992) (Remade as Wizardry Gold in 1996)
• Nemesis: The Wizardry Adventure (1996)
• Wizardry 8 (2001)

So, as you can see, the Dark Spire was never going to do as well over here as it did over there.

I love it already! XD

@Stuff1

Google is your friend. Wizardry was actually a top-tier CRPG back in its day, and it has held up well over the years, as WaltzElf has shown.

I didn't misstate a darned thing...others in AMERICA agreed. So that Wizardry stuff is still popular in Japan...good for it. 'Taint so out here.

Umm, but you're not meant to spend all of your time in the dungeon. Getting tired/sick was their way of pacing your dungeon exploration so you weren't level 100 before you fought the first boss. That would kind of ruin the game. (And hey, that's better than putting an actual cap on your character levels according to story progress a la Chrono Cross.)

The dating sim/character plot aspect is a big part of the appeal of the Persona games. * shrug * If they don't appeal to you, then you shouldn't have bothered playing it.

Also Dark Spire was a great game. Mickeymac is correct, EO is what you might call a watered-down version of DS and the Wizardry series, but it makes up for its less complex mechanics with a more accessible presentation.

EDIT: @slapshot82 Wow, Catherine looks awesome. O.O Looks heavily inspired by the Persona and SMT series, but much darker and more adult. Very cool. Funny thing is, I can't tell for the life of me what kind of game it is. XD Possibly a dating sim/horror/JRPG hybrid? Survival dating adventure?

And that ain't the point. The point is that Etrian Odyssey was more popular solely for its style, not because of its gameplay. That does not mean Dark Spire is the lesser game. In fact, from my experience most people who have played the two seem to prefer Dark Spire, and usually its because it is closer to Wizardry, which, by the way, was actually quite successful back in its day. Yeah, maybe it's not still popular, but neither are a lot of great series that have come and gone over the years.

Also, as an aside, Popularity is not an indication of quality. What a wonderful world it would be if all great games were popular. Unfortunately that's not the case, and because that's not the case, popularity does nothing to back up your argument.

@HolyMackerel: I had relatively little idea what I was getting into when I gave Persona a try. I just knew it was a cult classic with a lot of weirdness to it. Oh, well, live and learn.

@Mickeymac: You ain't gotta tell ME that popularity does not always equal quality, and vice versa. Honestly, I didn't mean for people to take me so seriously when I said that people liked EO more anyway. It's an opinion, which people are always entitled to, after all.

The problem is you mixed in statements("facts") with those opinions, and the two became confused. Sorry to debate, but it's in my nature.

Just barely in super robot taisen but I love what I see so far. Over the top battles and a good characters make this a winner. Now lets see how far I can get till etrain odyssey 3 comes out!

@Mickeymac: Heh, mine too. I think I probably create these situations subconsciously or something.

Glad to hear it, I very rarely recommend games as it would just make me feel like crap is somebody goes out and buys something to only find they dont care for the game. But with this one and your taste in gaming I had to. Im loving it still, such a great game.

As far as my Demon Souls grinding.... my upgrade to my new 320gb PS3 Slim wiped my Demon Souls data Talking about a deep blow to the stomach, it hurt the whole time I watched the format bar fill. Bright side is Ive now changed classes from Royalty to Knight and the ability to push enemies right when they go to hit you and then instantly can counter the mess out of them is great. Also starting the game back up is much easier the second time. Now that my game collection has been drained way down I plan to spend a great deal of time with this one in my PS3.

Thanks guys for the info on the DS games. I think Ill eventually grab both but I think Ill wait until Ive finished EOIII as they are very similar in gameplay.

@Mickeymac/ Stuffgamer

Sorry guys, didn't mean to start a fight - just pointing out that The Dark Spire, and Wizardry, is actually pretty popular, regardless of how it sold in the US. Dynasty Warriors sells pretty horribly in the US too, but thank the Gods that the US market isn't all there is.

Another Atlus fan chiming in here. Undoubtedly my favorite Atlus game is The Dark Spire. I find it miles more interesting and wondrously mysterious than Etrian Odyssey, but I'm a huge EO fan too. Aside from The Dark Spire and Etrian Odyssey, I dabbled in Shin Megami Tensei with Devil Survivor (which I thoroughly enjoyed) and Strange Journey (which I enjoyed even more), as well as Knights in the Nightmare which was just a little too "weird" for me.

How can we let this thread go to page 2?!

Etrian Odyssey 3 is out! Who has it? Reactions? Opinions? I'm definitely going to buy it when I see it.

Had a brief moment with it last night. Got my character classes all formed then fell asleep last night! Hope to get some more in today to give a little info on this.

@H-Mac. There is also a Etrain odyssey 3 topic on his game I will probably post my opinion there!

Got about 2 hours in and about an hour of that rebuilding my classes. What i did play was great.

I got about 3 hours in and I like what I see so far! My first battle had to leave to sleep cus got i beat down! Still mapping the first floor but completed the guild mission for money and lots of experience! The sailing part is addictive so far. Looks to be a nice change of pace from the normal quest. Costs a good deal of money though to set sail after a while but looks rewarding from what I can see. You can only go so far when you first start off. First level is hugh by the way but almost to second floor. Oh one last thing you can now auto map a path on the floor to travel on. Push a button and your party goes on the path you set forth for them. Seems good for mining chopping and gathering spots.

Conclusion: I likes a lot! 9 out of 10 in my book.

I...uh...bought it. Having not gotten around to finishing EO1 or even PLAYED EO2, it'll be QUITE some time before I'm ready to touch EO3. But I own it, so at least I don't have to worry about finding a copy later!

@Tech.... So how do you get money actually. I did notice that I recieved no money for the 10+ fights I won?

@Stuff.... Im starting with EO3