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Topic: Suikoden Tierkreis

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theblackdragon

1. Posted:

Anyone else playing it now or played it already? I'm really liking it. Granted, the most recent Suikoden game I played was Genso Suikogaiden, but I like how the series has been updated... the map screen/season cycle kinda reminds me of FFT and is easy enough to deal with, the FMVs are good quality, the voice acting doesn't make me want to claw my ears off, and the inability to accidentally keep pressing 'A' through a potentially critical decision is very, very welcome, lol.

There's some spelling weirdness (par for the course where Konami is concerned), I miss being able to use six characters in battle (instead of four and a support character), and the main character's VA talks a little too fast, but I'm about 10+ hours in and I'm enjoying myself a lot. :)

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WolfRamHeart

2. Posted:

@theblackdragon
I was considering getting this game. I even had it pre-ordered but at the last minute I decided to pass on it. I let a few unfavorable reviews change my mind. I should know by now that reviews can't always be trusted. I play a lot of RPGs and I have most of the ones available on the DS. I'm still unsure about this one but I was hoping that maybe after reading a few comments on this thread maybe I might reconsider my purchase. You seem to really enjoy this game but I am not too familiar with the Suikoden series. Can you compare it to any other RPG games out there?

EDIT: The review for Suikoden: Tierkreis here on Nintendo Life is in fact, a very good one. The unfavorable reviews I was speaking of were from other sources that I no longer rely on.

Edited on by WolfRamHeart

WolfRamHeart

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Corbs

3. Posted:

I can't tell you how many times I've almost purchased this game. I'm sure I'll finally cave in at some point, but for now I have far too many reviews stacking up that need finishing. :)

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theblackdragon

4. Posted:

@WolfRamHeart: Most of the 'bad' reviews for this game seem to be comparing it to other titles in the series. Since you've never played any of the series before, and I haven't had a PS2 or 3 to play any of the newer games on, I'm not seeing any huge problems with this title, and you probably won't either. the plot is pretty generic, sure, but i've certainly played worse.

The Suikoden series is unique in that the games rely on recruitment of the 108 Stars of Destiny (or 'Starbearers' in this game) to get the 'best' ending. The recruitment is in the form of a buttload of sidequests. It's kinda like Breath of Fire II in that the characters you recruit will eventually do stuff for you back at your base, only (unlike Breath of Fire II) you're encouraged to recruit anybody and everybody, not just the couple of people who will give you the best stuff. when you come to a point where you can decide what to say, try to go with the more favorable of the two choices (instead of 'maybe you should go home', choose 'why not join us?', for example), but there's a couple places where you can say things that look terrible in print, but the leader character will turn it around to be something awesome. that's another thing i like about this game; coming off of a Phoenix Wright marathon, it's nice to play a character where you're not constantly saying the wrong thing. :3 anyway, you can (probably) get through the game all right without doing any of them, and the ending you get will be all right, but the 'best' ending brings with it a sense of accomplishment and pride and blah-blah-blah.

it can be a little frustrating to get certain sidequests to trigger (in this game, apparently the season has something to do with some quests), and there are indeed missable characters, so I wouldn't recommend playing without a guide unless you don't mind the idea of not getting the best ending possible. after major battles/missions, you will be able to pursue the sidequests. if you're currently in the middle of progressing the storyline, you usually have to finish what you're doing before you can go back to recruiting.

The Suikoden series also plays a lot of politics. There's always some war between nations or groups going on, and the main character slowly worms their way into a position of power by maintaining a base of operations, collecting Stars of Destiny, and fighting honestly (as opposed to marrying their way to the top in an attempt to change things from the inside or performing some kind of coup to wrest someone's leadership away from them for no good reason). usually there's some anime-like questioning of 'why are we fighting' or 'what am i fighting for'; i'm not seeing that yet in Tierkreis so much, but i'm expecting it to show up sooner or later.

the magic system in Tierkreis (so far; there's a couple characters i'm going to get soon that i'm not sure what's going to happen with at the moment) consists of 'Marks of the Stars', and you collect a new spell every so often. each Mark has a different MP cost, and each character gains a different set of Marks (one character will get a spell at this point, another character will get the same spell at the next point). There comes a time in the game where you can start switching out your spells (you can only have four usable ones on you at any given time), though, and at that point you will need to manually add any new spells you acquire to your characters (they won't automatically show up on you as they had before). Any new characters you recruit will also need you to manually add their spells; otherwise they won't be able to use any Marks in battle.

As I said before, in Tierkreis you can only have four characters in your party and one supporting character, and with so many to choose from, you'd think some just wouldn't get any battle at all... but Tierkreis uses a lot of teams during major story events, and you'll have to fight separately. For this reason, it's a good idea to keep your characters leveled up and to make sure you've got them outfitted with decent weapons and armor every so often. it's easy to take a low-level character out with a couple of high-level characters every so often and get into a couple random fights, no big deal.

Fighting is turn-based (no active-battle stuff or anything), and visually, this game looks pretty much like the Final Fantasy DS remakes (3-D environments, characters with lots of polygons, etc.), but the dialogue sequences and character menu have pictures of the characters that pop up to show them as they're speaking (sometimes they'll get angry, sometimes they'll be laughing, whatev') that match the images from the FMVs.

... and i can't think of anything else to say to be honest. :3 If you find you like this game and really want to get into the Suikoden series, though, pirate yourself a copy of Suikoden II (it's no longer in print and there's no reason whatsoever to spend $120+ for it, holy crap eBay :() and give that a whirl. It's a damn good game.

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Kknight

5. Posted:

I'm currently playing this game and absolutely loving it (I've put about 14 hours into it so far.) I've never played any of the other Suikoden titles. I agree with blackdragon about the FMV quality and the voice acting (and there is a very generous amount of both.) I didn't know anything about this game until the review hit IGN...after reading the review I immediately called my GameCrazy and had them order me a copy. Haven't regretted it a bit. Highly recommended.

As an aside, I bought it right away, but due to my backlog of games it sat unplayed for a month or two before I picked it up to play.

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WolfRamHeart

6. Posted:

@theblackdragon
Thank you very much for your informative response! You were very helpful! I will definitely be picking up Suikoden: Tierkreis now! I got the digital artbook & soundtrack for this game when I pre-ordered it and I love the music and artwork! This sounds like a great game to have in my RPG collection!:)

Edited on by WolfRamHeart

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theblackdragon

7. Posted:

good times, man. if you're interested, i worked out some trade routes for when you get halfway through the game and upgrading your characters' equipment starts to eat away at your resources. trading is also important to get certain items to be sold in your castle (by trading Butterfly Wings, the Butterfly Robe becomes available for purchase, for example) once you recruit the character who sells weapons and armor (he's an automatic recruit, so don't worry about missing him :3).

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[16:44] Reala: don't expose the staff to sunlight, don't get them wet and don't feed them after midnight

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theblackdragon

8. Posted:

here's my trade routes. i only started keeping track of things on paper (as opposed to just in my head) about halfway through the game, so not all of these places will be available for you to trade between until then (the info should still help you decide what to trade or what to sell where early on if you're in a pinch, though... take the Dried Truffles you pick up in battle to Salsabil to get the most money for them, and the same for any Glow Beads).

the prices to max out these items in your inventory will stay the same unless the trading vendor has gossip for you -- sometimes the price of a certain item will go up, sometimes it will go down. all vendors will say the same thing during a price change event (i had them saying for like five stops in a row that Iris Lazulis could be sold for ten times their normal price once) until it is over, and i haven't figured out a reliable way to predict when a price change event will end (or begin) yet. always check the gossip before buying or selling (most of the time they won't tell you anything, but there have been times i wasn't paying attention and lost money on it), and then make your own decision whether to buy or sell at that price. the only price change event i have seen happen multiple times so far has been Iris Lazulis. I've had Giant Bug Shells and Glow Beads both drop drastically in price one time each, and there was one time that Rainbow Thread went up to ten times its normal price, and that was it.

there are also some things that won't show up for sale from trade vendors until you have traded enough lesser items... Uncut Emeralds beget Large Emeralds, Thread begets Cloth (buy Cotton Thread at Salsabil and sell in Citro early on), etc. i would have to play through again to figure out exactly what isn't available at the outset, though, because i don't really remember it all at the moment. but anyway.

Old Route: Grayridge, Salsabil, Citro, Naineneis, Cragbark, Tehah

Grayridge:
BUY
Uncut Emerald 15000
Sunshine Stone 10000
Giant Bug Shell 28000
Piercer Beak 26000
Eternal Feather 29000
Cotton Cloth 42000
Wool Cloth 45000
Glow Bead 15000
Large Emerald 30000
SELL
Rainbow Cloth 60000
-240000 +60000 =-180000

Salsabil:
BUY NOTHING
SELL
Life Lichen 80000
Iris Stone 75000
Piercer Beak 44000
Cotton Cloth 58500
Large Emerald 75000
Iris Lazuli 150000
=+482500

Citro Village:
BUY
Demon Corn Ear 28000
Dried Truffle 18000
Lizard Frill 25000
SELL
Giant Crab Meat 45000
Giant Bug Shell 50000
-71000 +95000 =+24000

Naineneis:
BUY
Giant Crab Meat 28000
Life Lichen 64000
Rainbow Thread 50000
Rainbow Cloth 50000
SELL
Dried Truffle 38000
Fish Guts 57000
Uncut Emerald 32000
Dragon Hide 48000
Lizard Frill 40000
Wool Cloth 75000
-19200 +290000 =+270800

Cragbark:
BUY
Fish Guts 40000
Iris Stone 30000
Dragon Hide 20000
Iris Lazuli 60000
SELL
Sunshine Stone 27000
Demon Horn 60000
Butterfly Wing 48000
Eternal Feather 39000
Glow Bead 30000
-150000 +204000 =+54000

Tehah:
BUY
Demon Horn 29000
Butterfly Wing 35000
SELL
Demon Corn Ear 55000
Rainbow Thread 70000
-64000 +125000 =+61000[/lj-cut]

TOTAL: -180000 +892300 =+712300

New Route: Woodland, Naineneis, Cragbark, Pharamond, Tehah, Grayridge, Salsabil, Citro

Woodland Village:
BUY
Dried Truffle 14000
Pekklar Meat 40000
Dragon Meat 30000
Life Lichen 40000
Gold Ore 40000
Giant Bug Shell 18000
Eternal Feather 16500
Cotton Cloth 42000
Glow Bead 15000
SELL
Demon Corn Ear 64000
Giant Crab Meat 50000
Uncut Emerald 34500
Scorpion Hide 94050
Dragon Hide 60000
Demon Horn 60000
Butterfly Wing 70000
Rainbow Thread 95000
Rainbow Cloth 95000
Large Emerald 75000
-255500 +697550 =+442050

Naineneis:
BUY
Giant Crab Meat 28000
Scorpion Hide 49500
Rainbow Thread 50000
Rainbow Cloth 50000
SELL
Fish Guts 57000
Lizard Frill 40000
Wool Cloth 75000
Silk Cloth 85500
-177500 +257500 =+80000

Cragbark:
BUY
Fish Guts 40000
Uncut Emerald 29500
Iris Stone 30000
Dragon Hide 20000
Butterfly Wing 48000
Silk Thread 20790
Silk Cloth 60000
Iris Lazuli 60000
SELL
Dragon Meat 60000
Sunshine Stone 27000
Eternal Feather 39000
Glow Bead 30000
-308290 +156000 =-152290

Pharamond:
BUY
Demon Corn Ear 25000
Lizard Frill 16000
SELL
Dried Truffle 14000
Pekklar Meat 72000
Giant Crab Meat 43000
Gold Ore 100000
Uncut Emerald 35000
Iris Stone 50000
Scorpion Hide 99000
Giant Bug Shell 70000
Butterfly Wing 60000
Piercer Beak 72000
Silk Thread 48510
Rainbow Thread 100000
Cotton Cloth 58500
Rainbow Cloth 100000
Iris Lazuli 100000
-41000 +1022010 =+981010

Tehah:
BUY
Pekklar Meat 58000
Iris Stone 41000
Demon Horn 29000
Butterfly Wing 35000
Iris Lazuli 80000
SELL
Dragon Hide 45000
-243000 +45000 =-198000

Greyridge:
BUY
Dried Truffle 22000
Giant Crab Meat 32000
Uncut Emerald 15000
Sunshine Stone 10000
Giant Bug Shell 28000
Piercer Beak 26000
Eternal Feather 29000
Cotton Cloth 42000
Wool Cloth 45000
Glow Bead 15000
Large Emerald 30000
SELL NOTHING
=-294000

Salsabil:
BUY NOTHING
SELL
Demon Corn Ear 44000
Dried Truffle 35000
Pekklar Meat 76000
Life Lichen 80000
Iris Stone 75000
Piercer Beak 44000
Lizard Frill 40000
Cotton Cloth 58500
Glow Bead 21000
Large Emerald 75000
Iris Lazuli 150000
=+698500

Citro:
BUY
Demon Corn Ear 28000
Scorpion Hide 52480
Dragon Hide 24000
Piercer Beak 34000
Lizard Frill 25000
Rainbow Thread 52000
Rainbow Cloth 50500
Large Emerald 55000
SELL
Giant Bug Shell 50000
Eternal Feather 32000
-320980 +82000 =-238980[/lj-cut]

TOTAL: -883270 +2201560 =+1318290

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[16:44] Reala: don't expose the staff to sunlight, don't get them wet and don't feed them after midnight

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WolfRamHeart

9. Posted:

Wow, thanks for posting that information! I'm sure it will definitely come in handy later on! You are really hardcore! Yes, I know that term is overused these days but I am just blown away at your dedication! So what other RPGs are you into anyways?

Edited on by WolfRamHeart

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theblackdragon

10. Posted:

Aside from games in the Suikoden series, I've enjoyed Final Fantasy III-VII and Tactics (i haven't had a PS2 or 3, so I haven't had a chance to play any others), Chrono Trigger (but not so much Chrono Cross; the magic system really threw me for a loop to be honest), the Legend of Zelda series (except Zelda II, never played it but i probably should try it one of these days), Okami, Megaman Legends, Wild Arms, Threads of Fate (it was a surprisingly good game, I really liked the way you could play as either main character to get both sides of the entire story), Pokemon (though more for the social aspect of the game than the story itself), SMRPG and the Paper Mario series (though i haven't had the chance to play The Thousand Year Door yet), the Breath of Fire series, the FFA/Mana series (Legend of Mana is my favorite)... i remember playing Illusion of Gaia, but i can't remember if I beat it or not, and Jade Cocoon pretty much sucked. i'm sure i'm forgetting others i've played over the years.

I prefer my RPGs to have a lot of character interaction (which is probably why most of my list are action RPGs instead of more boring traditional level-yourself-up-to-beat-the-bad-guy-at-the-end stuff like Gauntlet and Diablo and the like, which i can't stand) and to have either turn-based or straight-up action combat... 'active battle' stuff just irritates me, and in the case of Star Ocean 2 in particular I got so frustrated with having to keep track of all that was going on in a battle that after I screwed up really, really bad at one point (i accidentally progressed the story before leveling my characters, and i'd already saved so i couldn't leave the area anymore to go grinding) i just gave up. the story was really, really good, but the frustration was not worth it.

so what kind of RPGs do you like to play? :3

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MoogleMuffins

11. Posted:

Wow that looks really fun! Thanks for showing this to me, I've been looking for a good RPG DS game ever since I beat Chrono Trigger about 3 times. Would you say it's similer to say Final Fantasy or is it a game of its own as I've never heard of this series before.

Edit: I don't get why it says it was released in Europe on May 13th yet I can't find it anywhere on UK stores.

Edited on by MoogleMuffins

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theblackdragon

12. Posted:

It's a game of its own, to be honest. 108 characters is a lot to recruit, and there's a lot of sidequests and little bits of optional story here and there that flesh them all out -- everyone has at least a little bit of backstory; you're not just picking up people to fill your castle with warm bodies, and almost everyone has something new to say in reaction to major story events, so you can spend a lot of time between story events just running around and hearing what everyone has to say. There are other aspects of it that are not present in or are different than Final Fantasy as well, like the trading system, party setup and support characters, the team battle system, combined attacks, and party missions.

Long story short, since a good chunk of the characters in the game are optional recruits, your play experience is going to be what you make of it. it'll either be a longer game with an enormous cast or it'll be a shorter game and you'll probably be disappointed. While Tierkreis is perhaps not the absolute best example of a Suikoden game, all the other Suikoden releases were (or were first released as) console titles, so for a handheld game it's still a lot of fun.

also, Amazon.co.uk doesn't have it in stock, but Amazon.com does. weird. o_O

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Kknight

13. Posted:

Hey thanks for the trade routes dragon. Here are a couple other handy links if you are interested:

Trading Prices Sheet - http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pwZ_64Isr-_2pvZgE5a9sO...
Equipment Sheet - https://spreadsheets4.google.com/ccc?key=pTKOly5wtehqj5kNZpfelTg&hl=en
Unlockable Equipment (via trading) - http://suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=10688

Do I just use standard HTML tags to make the links clickable, or are there other tags I need to use?

Edited on by Kknight

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MoogleMuffins

14. Posted:

theblackdragon wrote:

It's a game of its own, to be honest. 108 characters is a lot to recruit, and there's a lot of sidequests and little bits of optional story here and there that flesh them all out -- everyone has at least a little bit of backstory; you're not just picking up people to fill your castle with warm bodies, and almost everyone has something new to say in reaction to major story events, so you can spend a lot of time between story events just running around and hearing what everyone has to say. There are other aspects of it that are not present in or are different than Final Fantasy as well, like the trading system, party setup and support characters, the team battle system, combined attacks, and party missions.

Long story short, since a good chunk of the characters in the game are optional recruits, your play experience is going to be what you make of it. it'll either be a longer game with an enormous cast or it'll be a shorter game and you'll probably be disappointed. While Tierkreis is perhaps not the absolute best example of a Suikoden game, all the other Suikoden releases were (or were first released as) console titles, so for a handheld game it's still a lot of fun.

also, Amazon.co.uk doesn't have it in stock, but Amazon.com does. weird. o_O

This seems a must buy to me then :). And I know its a tad strange considering it said its already been released in Europe, but maybe not in the UK...guess I'll have to import it then.

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