3DS Virtual Console Forum

Topic: Transfer Games Between Systems and Backing up

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ErdrikTheGreat

1. Posted:

I'm trying to learn more about the virtual console and what you can (legally of course) do with it. There are about 3 big reasons why I stopped buying consoles and console games back in the mid 90's. The main reason being that it was so hardware dependent. You were spending all this money and if your system were to break or you loose the games some how, poof.. you couldn't play them again (provided someone else wouldn't part with there's) because there was no real way to back any of it up. Any sort of hardware/software concept has that potential since things change over time, but it's more pronounced in gaming systems.

So for gaming systems, in order for it to be usable to me, there has to be a way to archive/backup or emulate some how (and i mean legal emulation) going forward. If the new generations cannot play older games (or emulate that environment), to me that system is broken/useless. Enter virtual console (yay!). This idea really attracts me because it's a legal way to enjoy old games. Which I prefer the old games vrs the new. (sorry, but I like to play my games, not watch them - as well as other annoyances).

But I'm having trouble finding information on it. I've seen at a couple of retail stores now where you can buy downloaded virtual games. This suggests to me that you can in fact back them up (hura! - win for nintendo!). But it also suggests to me that you can transfer them to different systems. Yeah.. I know that sounds like I want to pirate them, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm asking about the long term life of virtual console baring earth shattering calamities of course. Such as, what if one 3ds system breaks and I get another one? Are there rediculous hoops to get the content to play? Or is it pretty simple?

In the end, I'm not going to spend my hard earned money on something I can only use for a few years. In 50 some odd years when I'm 90, I may not be playing old video games from when I was a kid, but if I buy something that enables me today, I want to know there is a chance I could still be playing them then provided I still have the content. Just like I already know that I can and will be able to play many of my PC games I bought even 30 years ago. For me, not being able to do that is a complete deal breaker. If I knew I could transfer games (legally) between systems I might own from nintendo (wii U... wii u2... wii u3.. etc.. whatever the next generation consoles ended up being..), I would go on a spending spree...tonight.

Edited on by ErdrikTheGreat

ErdrikTheGreat

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unrandomsam

2. Posted:

If you want to do something legally I think you probably want a retrode and the original cartridges. (Simple fact that the exemption for backing up to make sure you don't lose access to the thing can be used it is even mentioned in Nintendo of America's thing about copyright. It is stated that it is very narrow but as far as I know it is exactly the particular use case that easily allows you to dump a rom using a retrode).

“30fps Is Not a Good Artistic Decision, It's a Failure”

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unrandomsam

3. Posted:

Anything newer you have no guarantees whatsoever and you would have to break the copy protection to do anything which is almost certainly illegal. (Not tested yet whether the Wii copy protection is considered good enough (e.g the DVD protection certainly wasn't the Blu-Ray one I believe is).

I wouldn't trust anything about future anything.

“30fps Is Not a Good Artistic Decision, It's a Failure”

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ErdrikTheGreat

4. Posted:

Well.. I guess maybe I over stated. I know nintendo probably isn't going to indefinitely maintain virtual console. Most likely it will be sunset (or nintendo will go out of business gasp). I don't entirely expect to completely future proof, and I do have many of my old games still :D. But virtual console attracts me because it seems like potentially long term solution since the games may not be on proprietary hardware. Based on what I've seen pretty preliminary of course. The games could potentially be portable to other future systems or another version of the same system I originally purchased (say replacing a malfunctioning console). I'm not saying nintendo has to offer the options or anything of the sort. I'm just saying there seems to be more potential with the virtual console than the original cartridges and other proprietary hardware and medium. It opens up nintendo to all kinds of markets if they are willing and able to take the risk. And of course assuming there is a strong enough market for it.

So... I'm just wondering for those who have used virtual console, what do you think about it? What is it's limitations? Etc. What I was really asking for was just peoples opinions of it. Not how to back up or anything else.

I know I'm probably not the ideal consumer if nintendo wants to make boat loads of money because I've already stated I don't get all giddy over new games. But honestly I haven't played much in the last few years. Virtual console could be something that wins back this customer at least. If I bought a console and found value in the virtual console system, I seriously would at least try a few newer games. I think I would like that. But for me, I don't like to make throw away purchases. Which is what all the consoles from all venders have pretty much been for the longest time.

ErdrikTheGreat

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Obito_Tennyson

5. Posted:

This is something that I would like Nintendo is implement, although there are not too many Virtual Console games with much use for a feature that enables us to back-up our save data. Most Game Boy, Game Boy Color, NES, and SNES games are typically very short and don't consist of worries for the user to lose their hours in playing. Sure, you have games such as Legend of Zelda, Pokemon, and Donkey Kong Land. (although the trilogy does use a password system, if I am correct)

As for playing the digital software in decades of the future, none of us are sure how Nintendo will act out. We, of course, have our dreams and wishes of Nintendo following other companies to be more efficient and liable such as Valve and Windows with their games. However, Nintendo sadly loafs around like a Sloking to do some things at some times, but does nothing at other times. It's fairly annoying, but what do you expect from a company that relies on their OWN IPs to keep their selves from going bankrupt?

We all presume, that hopefully one day, we could transfer our software to updated versions (like how the Wii U VC had the VC Menu unlike the Wii VC, although we couldn't update those software to be in the Wii U mode and allow the new VC Menu; the restore points would have been useful) as new hardware is released. As for now, we must rely with backwards compatibility from our elder systems to come forth to our upgraded systems which would be exactly the same as that system. You can't even go to the Home menu without closing the software when playing DSiWare on the 3DS. I, for one, hope that Nintendo fixes these problems, and we could perhaps play multiple software at the same time in future generations of gaming from our old systems. If only they would listen to our voices... then it would be so much nicer... At least Nintendo is doing their best with releasing more awesome, memorable software with classic, nostalgic games at low prices. (although the prices aren't too fair... $5 for Donkey Kong or Mario Bros??)

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ErdrikTheGreat

6. Posted:

Thanks for your response, but that didn't really answer my question. I'm asking about virtual console. I know very little about it so I want to know more. I'm sorry i'm starting a weird debate that isn't coming anywhere near answering my question :D.

But to that end, I disagree with you. $5 for donkey kong or Mario bros is not outlandish. $5 is nothing. Candy bars will probably cost about that in a few years (I jest a little, but seriously they are almost 3 times as expensive as they were when I was a teen). From the prices I've seen, I don't think any of it is out of line. What I would be opposed to is spending $5 on the game for every new console or some ridiculous thing. Which is why.. yeah.. it's neat they bring back old titles and remake them, but I already own it. I get it's a new version and they have every right to recover any costs for developments by charging more than $5 for it, but again. I already own it. I think it's a little silly to make the same mistake and buy another disposable item that you already own for what I would call a high price. I'm sorry, but it is. I get they are trying to make money and they don't make money unless we buy new stuff. And I don't mind updating my stuff if it's worth it. VHS->DVD or blue ray is worth it. A newer version of a game on a different console that doesn't have any potential longevity is not. But VC seems to have the potential to transcend the disposable nature of console games.

In regards to backing up. I could care less if I can back up my saved games. That's not what this is about. I want to protect the games I have purchased. Personally I cannot stand unending games that take days and days to complete (I've heard DQVII is that way). Games should really only take about a day to complete at a casual fun pace (16~24 hours max - and even that can be too long). What I don't like doing is buying something I know for a fact is intended to be a disposable item. That's what most proprietary systems and software is. Disposable. Anything you buy that is disposable has little chance of surviving over the long term unless there is a good way to emulate the environment that used to exist. Hence my attraction to VC. Because it sounds like it is a little closer to a longer term solution than just buy a game and toss it. Maybe I'm a boring person, but I don't need new flashy stuff every few seconds to keep me interested. Sure, I play my old games pretty rarely, but I enjoy them just as much as I did when I first got them when I do play them. Some of my old hardware has died. Some of it has been destroyed. If I'm going to spend my money on something, I'd rather I spent my money on things I know I can enjoy for a long time. To nintendo's credit, the hardware & games I do have has survived pretty well and I've found some replacements that seem to be in good shape. But someday my stuff will crap out and there is no real way to recover from that except troll for old outdated and eventually overpriced hardware from collectors. It's why I bought FF7 on the PC and never would have considered buying it on PS1. The PC is a bit more flexible. I can backup the software and I've never had any trouble getting that game to run on modern hardware.

Make fun of Nintendo if you want in regards to Nintendo trying to stay alive (if that's true). But other systems don't typically offer what nintendo does IMO. I'm not saying Sony and Microsoft (or whoever else is out there) don't offer anything too us. In the end, the gaming companies that survive will survive because they gave the people what they want. Not because they gave them anything good or worth playing. Personalty I cannot stand MS. I could rant until the end of time about my feelings towards that company and not even be remotely close to finished. So I can only hope their console system breaks the company and makes them fold up and go away. Humanity would be better off...

I like both sony and nintendo as company's, but sony's system is too gimmicky. I see these games with impressive graphics and realistic elements. And that's awesome. Those elements push the boundaries of what games are. But if I wanted my virtual world to be more like the real one, I'd put down the controller and go outside. What matters most in gaming to me is game play. The story is irrelevant. Graphics are mostly irrelevant. You want them to look good, but I'm not going to replay a game because it has great graphics. Just like I won't replay the game because of the story. Both of those ideas are silly. (if we replayed games for story's and graphics, nobody in the US would have ever replayed FF7). I know I've heard people complain about hardware, but lets face it. NES & SNES were never anywhere close to the top of the line hardware even when they were first introduced. We loved them anyway. That's what nintendo typically offers us. Maybe there own IP's do carry the company, but they usually do so because they've given us both what we want and something good (obviously not always, but I think that's a more true statement than false).

ErdrikTheGreat

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Tasuki

7. Posted:

Ok well the games you buy from the Virtual Console are tied to the system you buy them on, So if you buy SMB on the 3DS or Wii U they can only be played on those systems. If you break your system you have to send it into Nintendo for repair and they can transfer the games to a new system if the repair warrants a new system. You can do a transfer from 3DS to 3DS but it transfers everything from one system to another and erases the main system.

Those prepaid cards you see of VC games are just a code for that game and they are one time use that's all.

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ErdrikTheGreat

8. Posted:

Thanks Tasuki!

It sounds like the 3DS is at least a bit more flexible. Even then though, sending your console back to nintendo and get the contents transferred over sounds like a pain, but it's not too bad. I'm guessing you cannot migrate anything from VC on a wii to a wii u based on what you've stated. Which, from a business stand point, I get that. But from a users stand point that's a thumbs down to me. But I like the idea that at least there is some kind of transfer mechanism between systems if they are broke. It just doesn't really seem like it's any better than the current proprietary system already in place.

I'm guessing the wii u uses some kind of DVD disc that is somehow specific to it's system. Where as these VC consoles sound like downloadable content specific to that console system. Kinda the same thing.

To nintendo's credit though.. I do like the fact that they usually do try to keep backwards compatibility in mind. They don't always succeed. Such as in the US snes wasn't compatible with nes (at least that I recall). But they do have other systems that have had backwards comparability. DS->game boy advanced, GBA->GB, Wii -> Wii U. Etc. I'm not sure about the other big guys out there, but my memory seems to want to say they haven't been that friendly to themselves.

ErdrikTheGreat

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unrandomsam

9. Posted:

You can move everything from a Wii to Wii U but it will run under Wii mode.

You can upgrade for a nominal fee the games that actually on the Wii U (Which is basically hardly any of them).

None of them have what you want. (Closest is e.g Android / iOS that at least you can reasonably expect to be able to use the stuff you get for as long as you have a compatible device). PS3/360 requires you to have one of those consoles and there will become a point where they stop letting you transfer the licenses to new hardware. Nintendo it is tied to the console not the account.

Still think a retrode and the proper cartridges generating your own legal rom from them is the best way to protect your investment.

"The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic."

From http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp.

All of the console makers do everything you don't want.

“30fps Is Not a Good Artistic Decision, It's a Failure”

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ErdrikTheGreat

10. Posted:

Yeah.... nintendo's legal page has a few errors on it btw. But whatever. I'm splitting hairs.

So if the Wii U runs in wii mode, does that mean it cannot play any wii u games? Or is there some wii u menu thing that puts it in wii mode and you can still kinda do both? it would be a negative to lock the console into a downgraded state. But it's the idea that It sounds like they are allowing migration to newer hardware. You are still locked into proprietary hardware, but.. it's a step better at least.

Yeah. I'm just not a fan of proprietary approaches. Not that I've gotten into a lot computer games either. Which can be a little less proprietary. I know it's kinda strange, but computer gaming doesn't really appeal to me much because I sit in front of a computer most of the time. For some reason sitting in front of my old console every once in a while is a nice break. I am kinda looking to get back into it with some more modern stuff, but I can wait until the market is a little bit more modern and forward thinking.

ErdrikTheGreat

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Dave24

11. Posted:

There is a menu which help you switch between Wii mode and WiiU mode, you can do it as many times as you like. Of course, in Wii mode you can't play WiiU

Dave24

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ErdrikTheGreat

12. Posted:

Nice! But to that end, it's unlikely i would want to play both wii and wii u at the same time anyway :P. It might be a few steps to switch, but I like the idea.

ErdrikTheGreat

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Obito_Tennyson

13. Posted:

On the Wii U, there's an application that allows you to go to the Wii Menu. If you performed a Wii - Wii U transfer, then almost all the applications and settings should be transferred to the Wii Menu. I say that, because there are some applications such as Check Me Out that aren't supported anymore. Also, I believe that the Internet setting remain the same as the Wii U Internet settings. If you don't want to wait for the Wii U to go to the menu, then when the Wii U starts, you could hold down 'B' as a short-cut. Once you are at the Wii Menu, you could simply go back by hitting the applications and allows you to go back, or just simply restart the system.

Another cool feature is that you could play Wii games without a TV. You could use the Gamepad as a TV and use the camera as a sensor bar. The sad part is that you must use a sensor bar in order to get Wii Mode to work anyway, and you kind of need a TV to see where the "Confirm" button is when it tells you to use the Wii Remote to move on to Wii Mode. Otherwise, you'd be on Wii Mode without a Wii Remote! If it wasn't for that, then you could have a portable Wii!!

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