3DS Virtual Console Forum

Topic: Reflections on beating Zelda II for the first time

Showing 41 to 60 of 94

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theblackdragon

41. Posted:

Geonjaha wrote:

Basically my complaint is that it isnt a good game in the Zelda series. Maybe a good game, but not a good Zelda game. The fact that some fans of Zelda II only got to be fans of the game through dedication (Games shouldn't rely on fan dedication - they should just impress straight up).

so you're annoyed by the name — both because it turned you personally off as a player of Zelda titles and you feel it garnered a fanbase thanks to misappellation. as to the former, sorry to hear their experiment into proper RPG-land didn't capture your interest (and i'm sure you're thrilled they didn't continue down that line), but the latter... correct me if i'm wrong, but what i'm getting from you is that you're jealous because people enjoy it as a Zelda title, which strikes me as somewhat ridiculous...? :3

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Adam

42. Posted:

I agree that the title "Zelda 2" is a bad one. The theme is great, but if Nintendo had known the series would go on to spawn iteration after iteration of the same exact formula for decades, I'm sure they would have more wisely called it just The Adventure of Link to mark it as a spin-off.

And yes, there are some Zelda fans who don't particularly like it but keep playing it because of the name, but you initially lumped all Zelda 2 lovers together as one group according to those kinds of Zelda fans (though it seems you've backpedaled from this), and there are many of us who enjoy it for what it is and enjoy the difficulty and time it takes to get good at it. Most of the people who say they spent a lot of time and didn't get it — they did so as youngsters in the NES days. It's not like they sat for 100 hours on end grinding and cursing the TV until they finally got it.

I sometimes wonder if the game had had another name, not Zelda, if we'd still be seeing sequels to it today. If you give it a shot and don't expect Zelda: Third Quest, it is a unique and wonderful game.

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Geonjaha

43. Posted:

theblackdragon wrote:

Geonjaha wrote:

Basically my complaint is that it isnt a good game in the Zelda series. Maybe a good game, but not a good Zelda game. The fact that some fans of Zelda II only got to be fans of the game through dedication (Games shouldn't rely on fan dedication - they should just impress straight up).

so you're annoyed by the name — both because it turned you personally off as a player of Zelda titles and you feel it garnered a fanbase thanks to misappellation. as to the former, sorry to hear their experiment into proper RPG-land didn't capture your interest (and i'm sure you're thrilled they didn't continue down that line), but the latter... correct me if i'm wrong, but what i'm getting from you is that you're jealous because people enjoy it as a Zelda title, which strikes me as somewhat ridiculous...? :3

Haha, I'm actually a big RPG fan. I just think that Zelda should be Zelda. There are plenty of other RPG's out there, and to be honest Zelda II didnt impress me as a great one. It's almost as if it tried to jump to another game genre, but didnt really make much of a splash. And as to the second point - I'm pointing out that good games shouldn't need to be uncovered while playing them. You shouldnt need play a game for hours until you think its fun (how would they sell well at all if they were all like this?)

Edited on by Geonjaha

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Adam

44. Posted:

And really, even if it does take a lot of time for someone to get good at it, whether they are expecting a "normal" Zelda (hard to fault it when there was no norm yet), people do this all the time. Try any new sport, and you will suck at it the first time. And if you are playing against someone good (consider in Zelda you are playing against the CPU which is basically rigged to be better than you), you aren't exactly going to enjoy it until you put more time into it and figure it out.

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Adam

45. Posted:

The game DID sell well, actually, not that it is remotely relevant to anything being discussed. I don't have stock in Nintendo. My personal enjoyment of the game is not in any way shape or form connected to the game's commercial success.

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pixelman

46. Posted:

Geonjaha wrote:

No one wants a game that you have to play for hundreds of hours, experiencing more and more misery until your brain just snaps and starts to tell you "Oh - its actually fun" just to save you the pain. You lovers of the game love it now because you know everything about it, and can beat it easily because of all that experience, but that hardly defines a good game. Any game that people can only see as enjoyable once they know every secret deserves no praise. There are always some people that will like a game - especially those that are masters at it, but dont let your experience blind you to the games obvious failure.

You might have a point if you weren't making a very broad generalization based off of a single person's experience (if you check the previous page, mine was much different).

I definitely think it's not a game designed for young kids (even though some undoubtedly enjoyed it — different tastes, dispositions and development, and all that). But would you criticize Citizen Kane for being a failure if your six year old watched it 100 times but didn't "get it" until he was sixteen?

Edited on by pixelman

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Geonjaha

47. Posted:

pixelman wrote:

Geonjaha wrote:

No one wants a game that you have to play for hundreds of hours, experiencing more and more misery until your brain just snaps and starts to tell you "Oh - its actually fun" just to save you the pain. You lovers of the game love it now because you know everything about it, and can beat it easily because of all that experience, but that hardly defines a good game. Any game that people can only see as enjoyable once they know every secret deserves no praise. There are always some people that will like a game - especially those that are masters at it, but dont let your experience blind you to the games obvious failure.

You might have a point if you weren't making a very broad generalization based off of a single person's experience.

I definitely think it's not a game designed for young kids (even though some undoubtedly enjoyed it — different tastes, dispositions and development, and all that). But would you criticize Citizen Kane for being a failure if your six year old watched it 100 times but didn't get it until he was sixteen?

If kids were the market that enjoyed the first game, but played the second 100 times and didnt enjoy it until they were grown up then yes; criticism of the game shouldn't really be unheard of should it?

Edited on by Geonjaha

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Adam

48. Posted:

You assume kids are the only market for video games. Lots of teenagers and adults love Zelda. I don't know anyone personally who got any farther in the first Zelda than they did in the second as a young kid. Again, I and many others had the same exact experience: Could not figure out what to do after the first dungeon; came back to it as a teen or adult and beat it. Also again, you act as if commercial success is somehow relevant to the discussion of personal enjoyment. It isn't.

Edited on by Adam

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Geonjaha

49. Posted:

I'm not assuming kids are the only market, but everyone on this post was a kid when they first played it, thats why I mentioned it. You have to admit that not everyone enjoyed the game unlike you, and that sales of a game dont necessarily prove it was good. If many people bought the second zelda game because they loved the first - only to find that they hated it (which happened) then obviously those sales cant be connected to a success with the game.

Edited on by Geonjaha

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Adam

50. Posted:

You're the one who brought up sales, not me... I have repeatedly asked how sales are relevant.

I know not everyone enjoyed it. Not everyone liked the first Zelda. Not everyone likes Mario. What's your point?

It doesn't matter if we were kids when we first played it. I was a kid when I first played Zelda, and I never even found most of the dungeons, much less beat them. Like Zelda 2, the sense of mystery kept me playing it even though I had no idea what I was doing. Then I came back years later and enjoyed it for a different reason. Where is the problem here? Why is it fine and dandy for Zelda 1 to be hard and obtuse for kids but not Zelda 2?

People actually loved Zelda 2 when it came out, though not quite as much as the original. It is only after years of sequels based on the original that it has become a sore thumb. But again, Zelda 1 is not that different. Fans who started with Link to the Past or Ocarina often cannot get into the original at all because it is so much more obscure and difficult, more about exploring every nook and cranny than solving puzzles.

Edited on by Adam

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Geonjaha

51. Posted:

Adam wrote:

Where is the problem here?

Differing opinions, and the fact that after 3 pages I'm just not that bothered.
Sorry that you cant see what I dislike about the game, as you're obviously a big fan, but this is going nowhere, so I'm ganna stop now.

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Adam

52. Posted:

No problem. I totally see what you don't like about it (it is definitely not a game for everyone), but you were commenting on what others like about it, which never made sense to me or any of the others responding to you. Some people like the game immediately, some like it after several hours. If they like it in any way, then it is a good game.

Edited on by Adam

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komicturtle

53. Posted:

I got this game on Wii VC for one reason:

Temple music lol I fell in love with the soundtrack in Melee and always wanted to know it's origin. So, I got Zelda 2 for that and because it's different from your standard Zelda affair. Have never beaten it. Only beat the first dungeon and that's it. Now that I have it on 3DS, I do want to go back into it but it's just too hard and confusing for me mostly because I don't know where to go.

I could use a guide but I don't like doing that unless, for example, I'm stuck on one specific part in Zelda's games and find out exactly what to do (I beat Twilight Princess I'd say 95% on my own with no guide, and I asked a friend what to do at certain parts).

Now I feel like playing the game now and just taking it on. As for the original Zelda- I don't like :/

But I do ,ike the concept of exploring on your own with no set path. I just wish the controls weren't clunky. Yet, it's an old NES game.

That's my take on Zelda2

Can't get enough of Temple's soundtrack :D

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Adam

54. Posted:

I don't think the controls are clunky. They're just slightly "realistic," rather than the overly acrobatic physics most games tend toward. You have to advance slowly and carefully sometimes.

If you don't want to use the guide for fear of spoiling more than you would like, ask away. The first post of this thread means we now have one more among us who should be able to answer your question.

A general tip: Like most Zelda games, you will get a key item in each dungeon which will enable you to get farther in the world after. However, this game adds something else: spells. Before each dungeon you should be able to get a new spell. Find a house in a village from which a woman emerges. If she talks to you but doesn't bring you in for fun times, that's a hint that you need to explore your currently accessible area more. That area will generally be fairly small, considering.

So you just beat the first temple. You now have Shield spell (I assume) and the lamp. You should therefore make use of the lamp and explore the two caves nearby and proceed to the next village afterwards. From there, you should be able to figure it out easily enough.

And yes, the temple music rocks.

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komicturtle

55. Posted:

Ah, I figured it out. I was stuck because I reached the end of the cave (south of a in the west) and there was this part I could not reach. Turns out I needed the "High Jump" spell.

Thanks for pointing me to the right direction. I'll keep them things in mind and play this as I would any other Zelda game as should be :)

komicturtle

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Tasuki

56. Posted:

Geonjaha wrote:

Tasuki wrote:

Congratulations CB.

I have tried many a times to get into Zelda 2. Like you I got it for a present (cant remember if it was for a birthday or Christmas) and I remember how annoying it was. The vague clues the grinding and of course some of the enemies like Iron Knuckle (Ohhh how I still curse you to this day).

I have the Zelda Collection disc on GC and several times I have tried it again and again only to get annoyed by the leveling up and the fact that it goes to zero if you get a game over. The last time I played which was a few months ago I got lossed in the maze on the way to find the hammer. Maybe I will give it a try in a few months.

^ This is what I'm talking about. Not about the difficulty that he mentions, but the fact that he's going back and back to the game because it is Zelda despite the fact that he cant really get into it. What I was trying to say is that the game didnt fare as well as it could have if fans like him have to try so hard to enjoy it.

Nah its not so much the Zelda name that forces me to try to beat this game. Heck this game could have been called The Adventure of Poo Poo and I still would be trying to beat it all these years. Why cause I want to finally say that I beat it. I wouldnt say its so much the difficulty but the annoyance factor like how when you die your XP goes back to zero. After an hour or so of grinding who wants to do it again. Thats when I have to step away from the game and take a break. Than what usually happens is that I get interested in other games that come up and dont get back to Zelda 2 till the next new game drought for me.

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FloY

57. Posted:

pixelman wrote:

and as soon as I found out that you lose all of your EXP when you Game Over a lot of strategy — and risks — came into play.

For instance, one time fairly early on I was just a few points from leveling up, but one or two more hits would've meant a game over for me. Do I backtrack out of the palace, cross the desert and a cave to heal up, or do I risk a battle with a Stalfos and get the level up? I took the risk and I failed, but I ended up just laughing, shook my head and tried again.

this made me lol.... it would have been hilarious on youtube with commentary

Edited on by FloY

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Adam

58. Posted:

I would have laughed, too, not because of the context of his death, but because he got killed by a Stalfos.

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theblackdragon

59. Posted:

I would have laughed, too, not because of the context of his death, but because pixelman got killed by something.
doesn't matter what game >:3

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Philip_J_Reed

60. Posted:

Geonjaha wrote:

Adam wrote:

No, you more than once said something like "you lovers of the game." Unless you think Chicken Brutus is some ethereal entity encompassing all souls who love Zelda 2, you are changing your statement. And furthermore, it's not like he played 100 hours straight. He played it a lot back in the day, didn't get it. He came back to it, "got it", and got through it without any "misery." It's different. The game doesn't always make sense to newcomers.

My point is he played it a lot back in the day and didnt get it.

Your point is that my opinion of anything I experienced at age 10 should remain unchanged when I'm 30?

I have a feeling I'll be disappointing you on many fronts, then...

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