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Topic: Retrospective "Designer's Cut" & Re-combination of the Capcom Zelda's. Could it Happen? Should it Happen?

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SuperPaperLuigi

I'd love to see the remaining three Capcom Zeldas ("Oracle of Ages", "Oracle of Seasons" and "Minish Cap") re-cut, combined, reworked and released retrospectively as a single game...

...taking just the very best aspects of each game and the dungeon/temples, recast, simplified, enhanced and re-combined, to make an overall game that's simpler to navigate & more straight forward, and as long (as a regular single game) by virtue of the depth and breadth of it's content rather than due to the repetition and confusion you can expect from the older titles.

I guess it sounds like a huge project but considering the content (in terms of the ideas and concepts) are already there, and could be ported into an existing game-engine, and that it might also serve as a template for a sequel, or newer re-imagining, of similar scale and scope, I think it could be a viable proposition.

For me, personally, it would be an extremely exciting proposition and one of the things I'd most like to see Nintendo do.

Would people want this? Could it happen and if it could, should it happen?

Edited on by SuperPaperLuigi

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SuperPaperLuigi

@Tsurii Well, obviously I disagree or I wouldn't have posed the question, but...thanks for the input.

It wouldn't mean that all copies of Minish Cap and Seasons would be destroyed, it would just mean there'd be a retrospective remake.

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GrizzlyArctos

Each of the games provides a standalone experience, why do they need to be mixed into one game?

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SuperPaperLuigi

Personally I think it would result in something very much worth playing, where I wouldn't necessarily go back to those older titles, but that's just my opinion and opinions can and do differ.

Different people like different things for different reasons.

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shaneoh

Couldn't care less about the Minish Cap, one of my least favourite Zelda games, but I would like the Oracle games remade as a trilogy as originally intended. Ages and Seasons are definitely my favourite 2D Zelda games.

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RR529

I could maybe understand this with the Oracle games, since they are two sides of a whole (though they are fine as individual experiences), but why mix Minish Cap with them?

Other than the fact that it was developed by Capcom as well, Minish Cap isn't any more or less connected/relevant to the Oracle games than ALttP, OoT, TP, or any other Zelda. Story wise (and timeline wise, if you're into that), it has no connections to the Oracle games.

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the_shpydar

No. This would be a horrible, horrible idea.
I will leave it at that, lest a devolve into an insulting rant.

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SuperPaperLuigi

I have trouble with repetition, for instance I can't grind in anything other than a racing sim. Generally speaking, older games can be the same mechanic over and over again ad nauseum, which was just how things were back then. I'd love to see this stuff combined purely for the density of quality content (that could be pulled from the original games) and the amount of superfluous action that could be cut as a result.

But yeah, I wonder what the third Oracle game would have been and I think the uncompleted Oracle trilogy is a prime candidate for a redux.

Why add mechanics from Minish Cap? Well...I know it's a separate story and a separate experience but from the perspective of the format of its design I don't think it's as distinct from the format as is something like a Windwaker, which could almost be its own sub-series (with sequels in the form of Phantom Hourglass & Spirit Tracks), but adding the best mechanics and design from Minish Cap into the mix I think could only stand to enhance the overall level of quality, of what you could potentially end up with...

...for instance, what if there were a modern redux of the Oracles trilogy (that unites and completes the trilogy) where you could find the minish cap.

Edited on by SuperPaperLuigi

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CM30

I'd prefer they updated the Oracle games with improved graphics, music and technical aspects, and then made the third one they couldn't make back in the old days.

Trying to mix all three of these games together might be too difficult to do, especially given how different each of the titles is.

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World

SuperPaperLuigi wrote:

I have trouble with repetition, for instance I can't grind in anything other than a racing sim. Generally speaking, older games can be the same mechanic over and over again ad nauseum, which was just how things were back then.

I agree with you, but why can't new games offer that? Why these specific Zelda games and not a new Zelda series originally planned as a trilogy? (Not judging; serious question)

Personally speaking, I'm absolutely burnt out on remakes and it'll be a long time before I consider playing another one. And double that when talking about Zelda remakes specifically.

World

SuperPaperLuigi

@World I'd like to see what Nintendo could do with it, especially just having played Link Between Worlds. I think it could be the basis for something really interesting. Same with a Phantom Hourglass / Spirit Tracks remake. I think they'd both be interesting creative exercise which could yield really interesting results.

Edit: I guess part of it is that, as far as the Capcom stuff goes, I'd like to see a retrospective game-jam type thing where they riff off of the concepts to create, from the concepts and ideas of those games, something new in and of its own right. I think that, rather than another retread, could be a really fun creative exercise that could yield some really innovative results, that could be really exciting to see.

Hourglass and Spirit Tracks I'd like to see condensed into a single game (larger islands with tighter, shorter tracks) and just the very best parts of both included, with all of the dungeon/temples in quicker succession, in high res and 3D with innovation in how the touch screen stuff is implemented and what the overall fusion could create.

I think they'd probably end up extremely rich in terms of their depth and creativity and, as a result, really fun to see (and play).

...that's why they represent more exciting propositions to me personally, rather than just brand new games which stick to the established formula (although I'd want to see new games too).

I like experimentation and innovation...zelda remixed I guess.

Edited on by SuperPaperLuigi

"I try to put good out into the world, that way I can believe it's out there". --CKN

World

@SuperPaperLuigi This game-jam idea kind of sounds like what Namco Bandai was doing when they licensed out their properties to indie game developers. Sounds MUCH cooler than the "Ages/Seasons/Minish Cap HD" that I was imagining/dreading. Man, I'm surprised more game companies aren't doing this!

...annnd now you're making me wish Capcom would do a game jam revival type idea for a certain other dormant property...

Edited on by World

World

SuperPaperLuigi

@World ...which property?

Personally I really like stuff like that. I couldn't believe Retro Gaming Challenge was so badly received and that the sequels didn't get localisations...that just makes no sense to me.

I played NES remixed and I kind of liked it but I'd prefer just original Donkey Kong / Donkey Kong JR remixes almost solely (although the balloon fight stuff was fun (and I wan't to pick up balloon fight from the e-shop when I can))

I think the original arcade Donkey Kong is really cool. I'd love to see that developed into something larger but retaining the exact character speed, lack of inertia etc. I'd love to see it remixed...

...I had an idea for making a kind of indy game based on it but it would mean sitting down and really getting down to some serious programming.

Edited on by SuperPaperLuigi

"I try to put good out into the world, that way I can believe it's out there". --CKN

World

@SuperPaperLuigi Mega Man! (Although I'm sure they've got others that I'm not thinking of right now too)

Oh yeah, Retro Gaming Challenge is amazing! I'm honestly surprised the other two didn't get localized?

NES Remix was slightly less satisfying, if only because they didn't really allow for playing full games and really had nothing that felt substantial enough to replace it. The whole microgame score chase went a little too...Warioware for me (not that I dislike Warioware, just that it's already a thing that exists and didn't need replacing).

SuperPaperLuigi wrote:

...I had an idea for making a kind of indy game based on it but it would mean sitting down and really getting down to some serious programming.

Sounds like you've got enough drive and ideas to at least give it a try!

World

SuperPaperLuigi

@World Thanks dude The original arcade Donkey Kong stuff I just want more of and it seems the only way I'd be able to get that is to make it myself, and the idea is really compelling to me.

But yeah I have a game I want to make and I've looked at the creation software out there but with the whole "medium being the message" thing the assets just aren't there to make it work.

I also have a Shadow of Mordor killer Assassin's Creed concept, and while I'm normally really free and open with my ideas, that one I'm keeping to myself (although it wouldn't surprise me if they get to the same idea as it's kind of obvious).

Also, I have depression, which doesn't really help matters. It's why I play so much and play selectively...kind of just building my own "skinner box" to keep my mind occupied.

I know what you mean about NES Remix. They only thing that kept me playing was unlocking the Donkey Kong levels...but having said that I did like the Donkey Kong Jr levels and the Balloon Fight stuff. But the difficulty spike on the mario levels (and to a certain extent, Kirby) were ridiculous...most of the other stuff I could beat in a few tries but those seemed to require a deep understanding and mastery of the controls...I was literally thinking about picking up the original games on E-shop to practice to beat those levels (it added some incentive to do that but in the end there are so many good games out there (if you can find them) that the time's just better spent elsewhere. I mean it's not like we're 12 and all we have is the one super-punishing game to keep us occupied.)

But yeah, I think with Retro Gaming Challenge the reason it was so good was that they were new builds from the ground up, just drawing on ideas from older games, whereas NES Remix were literally the original roms (as far as I can tell) hacked into something new. I think it was a cool idea but at their core (for as good as they are) they're still old games. With NES remix it was kind of like the Retro Gaming Challenge concept but backwards...I'd like to see Nintendo flip the script on that stuff with some of their older titles...I think they could do that with stuff like the Oracles games since I think they'd have to...I don't think you could make a one-to-one up-rez of that stuff, they're just too complicated, long and convoluted for the current marketplace, and I know I don't want to sit there with a walkthrough constantly open, just to get through the things in a timely enough fashion to enjoy them (that in itself is not really an enjoyable dynamic. I think at the very least they'd need some kind of Fable-type breadcrumb trail).

I think that's part of the problem with Mighty Number 9 (the Mega Man Spiritual successor)...it just seems to just literally be a modern sequel and not a reboot (from what I've seen of it) which is great if that's what you're looking for, but games really have come a long way since those days.

I didn't play Mega Man as a kid (I'm in the U.K. and grew up playing arcade machines and then a spectrum, and to a lesser extent an Amiga, I had a SNES and a Megadrive but didn't play Mega Man, couldn't afford a Saturn or Dreamcast and migrated to P.C. when I could afford it, but I try play (or at least look at) everything, retrospectively, so that I can afford the hardware etc.) but I'm pretty sure I would have loved MegaMan if I had...I did pick up the compilation with the easy difficulty level setting and played it for a bit but, again, there are a lot of good games out there and without the nostalgia to keep me keyed into it it just wasn't something that was going to hold my attention...

...but who knows what they could do with it if they decided to remix or reboot it. I'd certainly want to play it. I think it could work in fixed-perspective 3D.

Edited on by SuperPaperLuigi

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Smash_kirby

@SuperPaperLuigi The third game was meant to be the first Zelda game done in Oracle engine. I would love to see a graphical upgrade for the games though.

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Haru17

I had no idea Minish Cap was also developed by Capcom. Much less by Mr. Mighty No. 9 himself, Inafune. Funny how things connect.

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CM30

Smash_kirby wrote:

@SuperPaperLuigi The third game was meant to be the first Zelda game done in Oracle engine. I would love to see a graphical upgrade for the games though.

Wasn't this actually meant to be Oracle of Seasons?

It's apparently why that world resembles the original Hyrule so much, why most of the bosses are redone versions of those from the first game, etc.

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Eel

The third game ultimately became absorbed by the other two. It wasn't just transformed into one or the other (though from what I heard, Ages took most of it).

The reason seasons takes so much from the first Zelda is because it is a call back to the origins of the project as a Zelda 1 remake.

Capcom instead decided they wanted to create something new, and Nintendo said ok... So the mystical seed trilogy was born.

Edited on by Eel

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