Topic: Pokemon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon discussion

@Tsurii Bulbapedia needs updating then.

I haven't played for couple of days. Last time I played, I cleared the second trial. I didn't have troubles with it. Sure, I used couple of Super Potions but other than that, I beat it on my first try. I was thinking of going through the game without using Revives like I did with White 2 that I replayed couple of months ago. Let's see how long I'll keep that stand if it really gets as hard as implied here.

I talked about what I wanted from Pokémon in terms of difficulty in another thread and one of the things was gym leader teams that complement each other and have better moveset. From what I gathered from @YummyHappyPills's post, I got what I wanted but it being 2 on 1 might ruin it. I always found it silly that I have 6 Pokémon in my team and gym leaders almost never have as many and yet I can still spam items on top of that. I mean, I don't one hit KO every Pokémon like some do, due to my playstyle but I wouldn't mind having more of a challenge. I already limit items, don't use Exp. Share and I haven't touched those Rotom things.

@Late Maybe my complaints are unfounded and my team is just crap and I need to git gud. I dunno.

Well, I did no training and challenged that Totem again, and won. Though to be fair, I think it was just absolute luck.
Managed to paralyse it first turn with Pikachu, swapped to Ekans and spammed Bite. Every time, the Totem flinched. Once Ekans was down, I managed to finish the job with Mime Jr. and Rowlet. Dusk Lycanroc wiped most of the health from the Fire Totem before I swapped it out. So I think there is a bit more challenge involved, but if you know how to overcome them, it can be easy.

I think this will sum up things quite nicely.

Should stress this is with no Rotom EXP Boosts or the EXP Share being used at all.

And yes, I could Roto Boost my stats...if Rotom didn't give me the following.

Roto EXP x8
Roto PP x7
Roto HP x3
Roto Bargain X2
Roto Prize Money x4
Roto Friendship x8
Roto Hatch x4
Roto Encounter x4
Roto Stealth x4
Roto Catch x2

No Roto Boosts.

To add to my frustrations after battling a Lv 41 Guzma, I immediately get thrown into a battle with Gladion at Lv42/43. Then right after that is Nanu at Lv43/44.

And THEN I get told that Lusamine at the end of this short Aether Paradise stint is LEVEL 47!

I'm still Lv 35/36/36/36/37/38. I'm not getting 10 levels on all of my Pokemon in this one area. I'm going to be 40 at most.

This game wasn't tested with the EXP Share off. It cant have been. I'm fighting every trainer and the gap is only widening.

@YummyHappyPills I wasn't fan of the change of the EXP Share in gen 6, looks like it's almost mandatory in the newer games.

@YummyHappyPills

Welp, looks like GF listened to all the folks that complained that X/Y and S/M were too easy. The Ultra games sounds like a nightmare to Nuzlocke(assuming you follow the "no exp. share" rule, which I myself follow).

@Octane There is no way in hell the game was play tested with the EXP Share off. Not at all. I've battled every trainer and I'm barely lv 37. I just had to beat 3 successive trainers who go from Lv41, to 42/43, to 43/44, one after the other.

The first Aether Foundation Employee I battled had a Lv40 Dugtrio and Toucannon. I fully believe my friend isn't lying about Lusamine being Lv47. What the hell happened here?

@KryptoKrunch I'm not nuzlocking this game. Ever. I don't think its feasible. I really don't. The idea of losing Pokemon and then having to grind against Pokemon Trainers who outlevel me even now, or wild Pokemon that are a higher level than I am without swapping any Pokemon out for the whole game just to get a team back on par, is not fun.

I was on Route 15 and no joke, wild Pokemon outlevelled me. They were 35. This game wasn't tested with the EXP Share. It cant have been. It was fine until Ula Ula island then it all goes south so fast. The trainers and wild Pokemon gain levels faster than you can by battling everyone without the EXP Share.

In a Nuzlocke scenario, the threat of losing you lv35 Pokemon to a Lv40 one and then having to get something from your PC and try and grind that up in this fresh hell just...ugh. No. No that's bad design!

The game doesn't accommodate the notion that people don't use the EXP Share.

You know what would fix this though? Difficulty select like BW2.

@YummyHappyPills At least the games are finally difficult. I think I finished most games being under-leveled by a good 5 to 10 levels.

@Octane The games have been plenty difficult. Black and White 2 had CHallenge mode where trainers got more Pokemon, different Pokemon, 5 levels over what they normally have, stronger AI, different movesets and items.

Platinum was pretty brutal too. As was Emerald, and HG/SS were hard for...not good reasons.

This is hard by not accounting for the players having the ability to turn something off, and not tuning the difficulty to match a middle ground for both EXP Share on and off.

I should stress I don't mind hard games. Difficulty is fine as long as it follows a curve. But on the player satisfaction curve, this game may end up rubbing some people the wrong way, as without the EXP Share this game sinks very far into frustration and anxiety, whereas XY were pitiful even without EXP Share, and the difficulty curve was outpaced by many players.

There needs to be a middle ground here:

However, this game reeks of artificial difficulty. Genuinely it feels like the developers failed to account for an aspect of their own game, namely players not using EXP Share, but when making it, they forgot it could be turned off. Same with Totem pokemon and most trainers having Max EVs and IVs, yes that's a legitimate way to boost difficulty, but its only passable by either dumb luck, grinding, or EV and IV training your own Pokemon which in a main game run...you cant do.

The developers are forgetting to account for aspects of the game they themselves are responsible for, namely making EXP Share disabled, and locking EV and IV stuff to post game, but balancing the game as if the EXP Share was mandatory and as if you CAN EV and IV train.

And I hate artificial difficulty.

@YummyHappyPills

Yup, difficulty select needs to return. I always thought they should borrow from the Stadium games and have Poke, Great, Ultra and Master difficulties. However 2-3 difficulties would suffice.

@YummyHappyPills I looked up some gameplay videos, and it seems you're right. The damage output is way too high. Have they ever done EV-trained Pokemon in the campaign before?

@Octane Cynthia in D/P/Pt had IV trained Pokemon. I think all Champions do. I know N does in BW and BW2. Its mainly bonus bosses or Battle Facilities that do it.

I think XY maaay have? And Sun and Moon did definitely but not to this extent.

But combine it with Egg moves, very liberal TM use and the level gaps...it feels a bit much.

Like take the battle with Olivia at the end of the 2nd island. I've seen Pokemon that resist Bug Type moves almost be one shot by Bug Bite by an equally levelled ANORITH.

This just isnt high damage, this is max attack damage. And how do you reasonably deal with damage output like that? Well you use competitive Pokemon youve EV and IV bred.

This is damage output that a lot of these Pokemon have no business doing outside of competitive battling.

Guess what you want have because all that is POST GAME! So you either EXP Share it or scumbag stall with potions.

And sad part i have now got 1 Pokemon to Lv 40! The others are 37-39. I have 2 Skull Grunts and Guzma to face before battling Lusamine and her Lv 47 team.

Im starting to wish I was joking

@YummyHappyPills Kinda weird how no review talked about this... Like they all played the game mindlessly with the EXP Share on.

But yeah, I've seen the Bug Buzz Masquerain nearly one-shot an entire team, and he has a Golisopod as well...

@Octane Alright so the last battle with Guzma....wtf.

Golisopod...I can only really hit with Electabuzz to trigger Emergency Exit but it cant take First Impression. Tauros can, but it cant really hit back at all its a physical attacker. Even then, Golisopod is a behemoth physically, so Aurorus is out too because Razor Shell is a move.

Masquerain...can eat a Discharge from Electabuzz and that is just wrong. And Bug Buzz one shots Electabuzz and Tauros. Araquanid can BARELY take Air Slash but not do much back. Aurorus is a good bet assuming you know...Hydro Pump...

Primarina walls Pinsir pretty well, minus Stone Edge because of course it does. Storm Throw and X-Scissor are rough though, especially on everything else on my team.

Vikavolt...so I figured Aurorus would be fine. It has Flash Cannon. I go to Araquanid, not even it's Special Defense can stop Thunderbolt. So basically Guzma, in a team of 4 Bug types, has counters to my entire team.

You'll notice I didn't mention Malamar. Malamar is staying far away from Guzma.

I don't think I can get past Guzma. He has something for everything and my checks are just that, checks. No counters whatsoever. Even if I do somehow win, Lusamine is now at this point locked to be 7-9 levels above me. What do I do there?

I remember Guzma being the only trainer who beat me in Moon, thanks to his Masquerain who flinched my Pokémon almost every turn with Air Slash. I think I'll continue Ultra Sun today and see how the difficulty ramps up.

@YummyHappyPills You said you've battled every trainer. Do you battle every wild Pokémon as well? I think the amount of wild Pokémon battles is what might give my Pokémon the extra levels they need to match up with trainer levels. You're going through the game with the same team. Do you catch any other Pokémon? I spend time in each area catching Pokémon because I like to rotate my team constantly. I'm changing Pokémon as soon as one evolves. That's why I end up against E4 with Pokémon that are 15 levels lower than my opponent's. Or at least that was the case until newer games. In Moon, my team was almost on par with levels.

Just trying to catch one of each Pokemon you find is good training too.

Still have yet to pass Guzma, but I used Bank to temporarily transfer over my near complete living dex from Moon. (which I was gonna do anyway) but kept my myriad of shinies, spare legendaries and spare UBs over in Ultra Moon.

So I got a Type: Null early from the GTS, so Ill have two of those, I just wanted dex completion before the post game, and it fills in my missing Type: Null.

I got a Cosmog I promptly evolved into Cosmoem, which means when I get the Cosmog in Ultra Moon those living dex slots are filled.

And I traded a spare Suicune and Yveltal for Blacephalon (Id need to trade anyway) and Stakataka early.

All Im missing before nabbing the shiny charm is Poipole and Naganadel. I want to get one of those two from the GTS for the living dex anyway, as the game only gives you one Poipole. Whichever one I dont get is the one I'll use the Poipole from my game for.

So yeah...havent beaten the third battle with Guzma but thanks to being a nerd I have almost filled my dex and living dex!

After depositing my spare Lv50 Articuno from my ex in GTS and getting a Poipole I was actually able to trade the Stakataka I got from the GTS (As Ill get two of my own later) for a Naganadel...and thats it! Shiny Charm get!