Topic: Pokemon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon discussion

As far as I remember; at the time BW2 was released, it was treated as equal if not better to BW. As years went by though, the general opinion changed slightly and more people seem to prefer the original to the "sequel".

I actually prefer Black/White 2 over the original two in nearly everything except the story, though both stories were quite stellar IMO.

I honestly would put BW2 near the top and BW probably at the bottom of my list when it comes to mainline Pokemon games.

Again, it comes back to the idea that technology is an iterative market. Exceptions don't really work in this kind of market since once the newer models come out, the exception goes out of print and you can't get it anymore. So then where do you get the experience the exception provided if you can't get it anymore? The answer is: you don't. So whatever people were drawn in by the exception and even people that liked the previous models but liked the exception much more are left abandoned and could end up leaving. The bottom line is that the exception makes the rule look worse, so to keep up sales they have to make the exception the new rule.

And that's the issue with BW2. It was such a dramatic improvement on the third version formula that it makes all third versions look bad by comparison, so now third versions are less desirable now. It raised the bar for the series. Because of that you would've expected that BW2 would become the new standard for the series and all other future updated versions would draw from it. Sadly, it seems that Game Freak lacks the common sense to realize the kind of impact BW2's had on people's expectations and so you have a large faction of Pokemon fans that are underwhelmed by the return of third versions.

The other games also don't take an existing game, add a few bells and whistles to it, and then turn around and resell it on the same hardware a year or two later at full price. Literally no other IP does that.

Yeah, I never saw anyone hate on BW2. I saw confusion about what it was after the initial reveal (before they elaborated on the game being 2 years after BW and the new characters, areas, etc.), but no outright hate for the game.

While I'm staying out of the rest of your debate, doesn't this happen to an extent with some of the sports iterations that release every year? Literally half of them just seem like they have slight graphical updates and roster changes from iteration to iteration.

I'm not saying Pokemon's release formula doesn't need any improvement, but I would hardly call it the only franchise that falls into this pattern.

@Bolt_Strike I'm pretty sure people weren't confused about BW2 being sequels "one or two years ago".

However, I remember talking with people who thought BW2 where pretty much junk compared to the masterpieces that were BW or Platinum. On this very site.

It's obviously an opinion I don't share, but still.

Well I wasn't on this site back then so that explains it. Pretty much everyone on Pokemon forums and on Youtube has been positive towards the games.

You need to surf the internet some more then.

This too. Hell, look on this site at the amount of people that got sick of yearly NSMB games in the early 2010s and the amount of people that don't want that series to return on the Switch. Other games aren't immune to that kind of criticism. It's just much worse with Pokemon now because other series don't recycle things to nearly the same degree or intentionally ignore technological improvements such as DLC.

if anyone wants the Pikachu wearing the original hat from the movie you can get it through this code Pikachum20. I have used it and it works

I heard it was exclusive for USUM. So does it also work on S&M?

Who thinks after this they will put out smaller pokemon game
I hope for a Pokemon crystal on 3ds vc
and a pokemon mystery dungoen game(we have not have one for gen 7 yet) (it might be dual release too like blue and red team for gba and ds)
I wonder if we get a ranger game i would love that

Additionally, the issue isn't simply that the games aren't improving. The issue is that the improvements don't stick. Game Freak is pretty good with introducing major changes to the formula, but they treat their changes as "unique regional features" and immediately toss them away and start from square one the next game. So the series is just making a series of lateral moves instead of actual forward progress.

BW2 is simply the biggest example of this phenomenon. You have an entire style of game that dramatically improves upon the concept of a third version being treated as regional flair. And it's baffling how anyone can view something like this as region specific, it's far too major and generalized to be restricted to one game.

I have been using it on S&M. I’ve already got two. One in Sun and one in Moon.

Ive seen the

Necrozma - The Nuzlocke Killer

In an interview with The Verge, Iwao mentions the possibility of DLC for future games instead of full third versions.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/19/16466536/pokemon-ultra-su...

In the age of games-as-service, when titles are constantly updated with new content, a release like Ultra Sun and Moon can seem a bit dated. Pokémon Go came out more than a year ago, for instance, and it has new creatures and features added on a semi-regular basis. Even more traditional Nintendo titles like The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild and Splatoon 2 have embraced the idea of extending a game’s life through downloadable content. And while Ultra Sun and Moon may come in the form of a traditional packaged release, Iwao believes that future Pokémon titles could easily take on a more modern form, with regular updates in place of full-fledged new games.

It's great that they finally realize this, but the mention of "games as a service" doesn't sit well with me and calls to mind sleazy practices like on disc DLC, microtransactions, and loot boxes. Hopefully Nintendo can keep them in line on this.

@Bolt_Strike Bit weird that he mentioned Splatoon 2 as a "more traditional" Nintendo title. That game is not what I would call "traditional" at all. They got in on the GaaS trend early with the first Splatoon anyways. Both it and it's sequel have all of the hallmarks of a GaaS except the microtransactions/lootboxes.

For Pokemon, the traditional third version definitely doesn't make sense anymore. Release the new generation, then release new forms/Pokemon through updates/free DLC, as well as the expansion bit as cheap paid DLC. Then release remakes as the second entry games. Also, Pokemon was the pioneer of on-disc DLC

Well I think if they were to do that they might do a $10-$20 third version pack, maybe consisting of a Delta Episode esque story arc, a Battle Zone sized set of areas, and some new Pokemon/forms. And maybe they could throw in events and various balancing updates periodically. Then they can focus on remakes and sequels if they want extra games.

This might also affect DP remakes as well, I could see them making entire storyline events out of some of the events of that game. At the same time though, I'm a bit concerned they'll try to make Platinum content into DLC, which while better than ORAS having pretty much nothing from Emerald, would still be kind of a ripoff.

@IceClimbers Sonic 3 was the pioneer of on disc DLC in 1994.

Hey looks some levels here you cant access...$60 please.

As far as I know the extra levels were in the knuckles cartridge, not the original sonic 3 cartridge.