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Topic: Ocarina of Time = Pure Frustration

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veeflames

Meowpheel wrote:

Now you can move on to the NES games!

LOL Maybe so, but not Zelda II. Zelda II = Pure junk.

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LaserdiscGal

@Vee_Flames It's not junk, it's just horribly difficult and needlessly complicated.

I can think of far worse NES games to play.

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Freeon-Leon

@Waluigi: It's not THAT difficult. I'm not a super gamer but I swear I never felt the game was way harder than other NES games.

Ninja Gaiden is where's at.

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FriedSquid

From what I remember about Ocarina its puzzles are mostly, "Play Zelda's Lullaby over this obvious spot cause it has a Triforce on it" and "Shoot eyes with arrows"

Seemed like simple stuff honestly, I can't remember a time that I got stuck in that game. You have to talk to NPCs and look for hints around the area and piece it together.

Guess I'm not really one to talk because I couldn't play Zelda 1 without a guide.

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Bsham

@Tsurii: I think that was my biggest handicap, I literally went into it completely blind. My only other experience with Zelda is playing Wind Waker on the GameCube, which i enjoyed a lot but didn't manage enough time with it due to time constraints at the time. Ocarina is the first that I really delved into. I'm playing A Link Between Worlds now, I'm hoping I will get how to play this one without guides.

Edited on by Bsham

Bsham

bitleman

@FriedSquid: The first Zelda was sold with a small guide in the box giving you the location of the first 4 temples and lot of hints about how to use objects. There were to much technical limitations to put proper tutorials in those games back then

bitleman

Bolt_Strike

Tsurii wrote:

@Bolt_Strike: No they don't. This whole thing is the biggest problem OoT has, a ton of mandatory tasks are cryptic as can be. The first parts of the game are fine, but once it opens up you have to do a lot of really random carp in very specific places. NPCs give you hints to a lot of minor things but some of the things you need to do to progress the actual main story are just stupid. It may feel natural or simple to people who played the game a million times over before or if you're playing with a guide, which was the norm back in the day mind you, but if you're going into the game completely blind you will run into instances where you're completely and utterly stumped because of really strange design choices.

The game's good, yeah, but it sucks horribly at giving you hints to a couple of the more important things. Even the things Ralizah mentioned about Link's Awakening weren't anywhere near as awkward to find as the stuff in OoT, mostly because the world was a lot more.. "focused" and didn't have a ton of empty filler areas (Hyrule Field in Ocarina is the single-most boring place in the Zelda series if you ask me)

The only one of those things the OP mentioned that they give you no hint of is getting the Red Tunic, everything else they tell you how to do.

1. An NPC in future Kakariko Village tells you that a man once used the Lens of Truth, and his house was built where the well is. As for unlocking it, if you actually talk to the windmill guy, you'd pick up on the fact that you would've had to play that song in the past.
2. Don't remember this one exactly, but one of the NPCs does hint for you to go to Lake Hylia, and the secret entrance there is plain as day.
3. One of the Zoras tells you you need to offer Jabu-Jabu a fish to open his mouth.
4. This one isn't hinted, and you can't buy a Red Tunic in the future anyway without first getting the one from Darunia's son. And you can't buy one in the past because you're not big enough to wear it.
5. After getting the Spin Attack on top of Death Mountain, the Great Fairy tells you one of her friends is in Hyrule Castle. And even if you didn't know that, if you had a good enough memory the entrance is in plain sight your first time through, so once you got the Bombs you'd want to check it out.

Edited on by Bolt_Strike

Bolt_Strike

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Eel

The rolling gorons are usually rolling dangerously near bomb flowers, and one of them has a sign that says that you'll get something good if you manage to stop him (it's a bigger bag of bombs).

Then in the future, the one and only goron in goron city (besides the shopkeeper) is replacing that same goron, so naturally, you may want to try and stop him too.

Edited on by Eel

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Bsham

Another puzzle I found frustrating is in the Shadow Temple where you had to blow up that dirt mound then use the lens to see the chest. That was again something I simply never would have thought of as the dirt mound doesn't stand out as something other than part of the graphics in the dungeon. In fact I backtracked through the entire dungeon thinking I missed a key somewhere. It's a difficult game because of the sheer randomness and very odd logic of some of the things.

Seems like you need to be going in with the right mindset to play it. For players like me who went into it completely inexperienced in any Zelda games it's very frustrating to play. While this game is clearly great it's not newcomer friendly at all.

Edited on by Bsham

Bsham

Ralizah

@Bsham: ALBW is an incredibly well-designed game. A few of the puzzles can be head-scratchers at first, but when you figure them out they always make perfect sense. There was never a point where I felt like the game wasn't giving me all the information I need to figure it out.

Also, the weapon renting system means you don't have to wander the lands looking for the next dungeon and can tackle them in any order, which is great.

@Bolt_Strike: Sorry, but expecting the player to remember what one random NPC said in one of the timelines in order to have any inkling what needs to be done next isn't good game design. It's the only 3D Zelda I've played thus far that engages in this kind of arcane nonsense. Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess (thus far, at least, as I've not finished it) all give the player enough information for them to be able to find their way around the world in a natural way.

Edited on by Ralizah

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Bolt_Strike

Ralizah wrote:

@Bolt_Strike: Sorry, but expecting the player to remember what one random NPC said in one of the timelines in order to have any inkling what needs to be done next isn't good game design. It's the only 3D Zelda I've played thus far that engages in this kind of arcane nonsense. Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess (thus far, at least, as I've not finished it) all give the player enough information for them to be able to find their way around the world in a natural way.

Really? Expecting people to walk around and talk to people nearby, in a game that's based on exploration and puzzles, isn't good game design? You guys are so spoiled. I mean, it's one thing if it was an NPC in a completely different area from where you're exploring, but the NPCs in question are right there, so there's no excuse for you not to find them.

Bolt_Strike

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Freeon-Leon

Bolt_Strike wrote:

5. After getting the Spin Attack on top of Death Mountain, the Great Fairy tells you one of her friends is in Hyrule Castle. And even if you didn't know that, if you had a good enough memory the entrance is in plain sight your first time through, so once you got the Bombs you'd want to check it out.

Yeah, but there wasn't any sign that said I could destroy that rock with a bomb! How am I suppose to figure it out?

/s

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Bolt_Strike

Freeon-Leon wrote:

Bolt_Strike wrote:

5. After getting the Spin Attack on top of Death Mountain, the Great Fairy tells you one of her friends is in Hyrule Castle. And even if you didn't know that, if you had a good enough memory the entrance is in plain sight your first time through, so once you got the Bombs you'd want to check it out.

Yeah, but there wasn't any sign that said I could destroy that rock with a bomb! How am I suppose to figure it out?

/s

You used Bomb Flowers to destroy rocks before you even got your own bombs.

Bolt_Strike

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Bsham

Been playing Link Between Worlds and have to say it's a lot more coherent. Nothing feels illogical or random and feels more enjoyable because of it.

I know some don't agree on Ocarina being too hard but I've been gaming since the NES days. I'm mainly a PC gamer and played a lot of adventure and RPG games and never has a game made me feel so confused and frustrated as Ocarina did.

EDIT: Actually, one game did, Discworld on the Sega Saturn, that ranks side-by-side with Ocarina for frustration. Discworld being the worst offender by a long mile though.

Edited on by Bsham

Bsham

Haru17

@Bsham Wow, you have terrible taste.

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Rafx

It was just a differant time. The game industry was still young and I don't think games were really ment to just be sat down and stomped like they are today. It was a slow simmer kinda deal. You had time to sit down and experiment and figure out context clues (which OOT is full of) before diverting your attention to a new release.

Also I think we just had more patience then and a longer attention span as we hadn't really been conditioned to be waiting for the next big AAA title yet. Overall just a difference in generations. We thought differant then as alot of gaming convintions were different.

I don't say any of this as we were or it was better then. Just that things have changed. Good, bad, or ugly.

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Bsham

Yeah, think you're right. Different generation different rules.

[quote=Haru17]@Bsham Wow, you have terrible taste.[/quote

No, when you're young and can't afford to buy games because you're at school you make do with what's there. Not a game I liked exactly.

Anyway, just finished Link Between Worlds (got time to while my foot is in a cast for a while), enjoyed it but dam, it's way too easy. So Ocarina was too hard and Link Between Worlds was too easy, guess I can't win lol.

Edited on by Bsham

Bsham

Eel

Yes, ALBW is a bit on the easy side. Mostly because all the dungeons are equally easy.

Have you tried the GBC games? They're really good. You can get them on the 3DS.

In terms of vagueness and puzzletly... I'd rank them (from least to most):

Oracle of Seasons
Oracle of Ages
Link's Awakening

They all should offer a nice challenge, but if you don't like being lost without knowing what to do, the OoS is a good one to play.

Edited on by Eel

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VoltageX

@Meowpheel: I downloaded oracle of ages and just recently started it. wanted another zelda experience after ALBW. hope I wont get stuck too much XD

VoltageX

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