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Topic: New to Pokemon which to buy ? Ruby/Sapphire or X/Y

Posts 41 to 60 of 71

-Juice-

Bolt_Strike wrote:

Yeah, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. I can't see how anyone who's not a casual could possibly enjoy the direction this series has gone in since 5th gen.

Also, there is much more to the older post games than what you listed.

We were talking about "new areas" in the post games. Also, apparently the old Kyogre and Groudon had a catch rate of 5, while their primal forms have a catch rate of 3, like all legendary Pokemon before 3rd/4th gen. In 4th gen the main legendary Pokemon were 45, in 5th gen they were 45, and in X and Y they were 45.

I will agree to disagree, but I, as well as most of the open minded fanbase who are okay with change, okay with progress, and don't use nostalgia to cloud our views, know that ORAS were really good improvements over the originals, and amazing installments for generation 6. They have taken the series in a new direction that has a lot of potential.

Edited on by -Juice-

3DS Friend Code: 0962-9923-0016

Bolt_Strike

BlatantlyHeroic wrote:

We were talking about "new areas" in the post games.

Okay, well you're still missing a few areas, like:

FRLG: Sevii Islands
DPPt: Snowpoint Temple, Rt. 224
BW1: East Unova, Dreamyard basement, Relic Castle maze, Challenger's Cave
BW2: Southeast Unova, Twist Mountain, Icirrus City, Dragonspiral Tower, Rt. 8, Moor of Icirrus, Tubeline Bridge, Clay Tunnel

And yeah, FRLG, DPPt, BW1, and BW2 have tons of post game areas, enough to form a mini region (5+ routes, several cities, new caves and forests, etc.). XY and ORAS mainly have one city and some other, incredibly minor stuff.

Bolt_Strike

3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

-Juice-

Bolt_Strike wrote:

BlatantlyHeroic wrote:

We were talking about "new areas" in the post games.

Okay, well you're still missing a few areas, like:

FRLG: Sevii Islands
DPPt: Snowpoint Temple, Rt. 224
BW1: East Unova, Dreamyard basement, Relic Castle maze, Challenger's Cave
BW2: Southeast Unova, Twist Mountain, Icirrus City, Dragonspiral Tower, Rt. 8, Moor of Icirrus, Tubeline Bridge, Clay Tunnel

And yeah, FRLG, DPPt, BW1, and BW2 have tons of post game areas, enough to form a mini region (5+ routes, several cities, new caves and forests, etc.). XY and ORAS mainly have one city and some other, incredibly minor stuff.

Have you ever thought of, oh I don't know, restarting your game after you beat everything like most gamers who play Pokemon do? TLoZ games don't have a post game, but people like to play those over and over. Red/Blue/Yellow didn't have a post game, but people liked to play those over and over. Post game is really just a minor thing no matter how much you have. It's just little extra meaningless tasks after your adventure is over. It has no impact, your story is done anyway. The real meat in any game is in the adventure itself, not what happens afterwards.

Edited on by -Juice-

3DS Friend Code: 0962-9923-0016

Bolt_Strike

BlatantlyHeroic wrote:

Bolt_Strike wrote:

BlatantlyHeroic wrote:

We were talking about "new areas" in the post games.

Okay, well you're still missing a few areas, like:

FRLG: Sevii Islands
DPPt: Snowpoint Temple, Rt. 224
BW1: East Unova, Dreamyard basement, Relic Castle maze, Challenger's Cave
BW2: Southeast Unova, Twist Mountain, Icirrus City, Dragonspiral Tower, Rt. 8, Moor of Icirrus, Tubeline Bridge, Clay Tunnel

And yeah, FRLG, DPPt, BW1, and BW2 have tons of post game areas, enough to form a mini region (5+ routes, several cities, new caves and forests, etc.). XY and ORAS mainly have one city and some other, incredibly minor stuff.

Have you ever thought of, oh I don't know, restarting your game after you beat everything like most gamers who play Pokemon do? TLoZ games don't have a post game, but people like to play those over and over. Red/Blue/Yellow didn't have a post game, but people liked to play those over and over. Post game is really just a minor thing no matter how much you have. It's just little extra meaningless tasks after your adventure is over. It has no impact, your story is done anyway. The real meat in any game is in the adventure itself, not what happens afterwards.

Post game is not meaningless. The point is to have more things to do after you beat the game so that you don't get bored after finishing, the more there is to do the more you can enjoy the game. So the decrease in post game content is a pretty big problem because it means that you can blow through the game pretty quickly and get bored of it. This is especially a problem for XY because there's so little meat to it that you have to go back 10 years to even find a game that's comparable, but ORAS also is pretty lacking compared to other third versions/remakes/sequels.

Bolt_Strike

3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

-Juice-

Bolt_Strike wrote:

BlatantlyHeroic wrote:

Bolt_Strike wrote:

BlatantlyHeroic wrote:

We were talking about "new areas" in the post games.

Okay, well you're still missing a few areas, like:

FRLG: Sevii Islands
DPPt: Snowpoint Temple, Rt. 224
BW1: East Unova, Dreamyard basement, Relic Castle maze, Challenger's Cave
BW2: Southeast Unova, Twist Mountain, Icirrus City, Dragonspiral Tower, Rt. 8, Moor of Icirrus, Tubeline Bridge, Clay Tunnel

And yeah, FRLG, DPPt, BW1, and BW2 have tons of post game areas, enough to form a mini region (5+ routes, several cities, new caves and forests, etc.). XY and ORAS mainly have one city and some other, incredibly minor stuff.

Have you ever thought of, oh I don't know, restarting your game after you beat everything like most gamers who play Pokemon do? TLoZ games don't have a post game, but people like to play those over and over. Red/Blue/Yellow didn't have a post game, but people liked to play those over and over. Post game is really just a minor thing no matter how much you have. It's just little extra meaningless tasks after your adventure is over. It has no impact, your story is done anyway. The real meat in any game is in the adventure itself, not what happens afterwards.

Post game is not meaningless. The point is to have more things to do after you beat the game so that you don't get bored after finishing, the more there is to do the more you can enjoy the game. So the decrease in post game content is a pretty big problem because it means that you can blow through the game pretty quickly and get bored of it. This is especially a problem for XY because there's so little meat to it that you have to go back 10 years to even find a game that's comparable, but ORAS also is pretty lacking compared to other third versions/remakes/sequels.

EVERY. POKEMON. GAME. HAS. HAD. BASICALLY. THE. SAME. POST. GAME. STRUCTURE. FROM. GEN. 4-IV. Why can you not understand this?

3DS Friend Code: 0962-9923-0016

Bolt_Strike

BlatantlyHeroic wrote:

Bolt_Strike wrote:

BlatantlyHeroic wrote:

Bolt_Strike wrote:

BlatantlyHeroic wrote:

We were talking about "new areas" in the post games.

Okay, well you're still missing a few areas, like:

FRLG: Sevii Islands
DPPt: Snowpoint Temple, Rt. 224
BW1: East Unova, Dreamyard basement, Relic Castle maze, Challenger's Cave
BW2: Southeast Unova, Twist Mountain, Icirrus City, Dragonspiral Tower, Rt. 8, Moor of Icirrus, Tubeline Bridge, Clay Tunnel

And yeah, FRLG, DPPt, BW1, and BW2 have tons of post game areas, enough to form a mini region (5+ routes, several cities, new caves and forests, etc.). XY and ORAS mainly have one city and some other, incredibly minor stuff.

Have you ever thought of, oh I don't know, restarting your game after you beat everything like most gamers who play Pokemon do? TLoZ games don't have a post game, but people like to play those over and over. Red/Blue/Yellow didn't have a post game, but people liked to play those over and over. Post game is really just a minor thing no matter how much you have. It's just little extra meaningless tasks after your adventure is over. It has no impact, your story is done anyway. The real meat in any game is in the adventure itself, not what happens afterwards.

Post game is not meaningless. The point is to have more things to do after you beat the game so that you don't get bored after finishing, the more there is to do the more you can enjoy the game. So the decrease in post game content is a pretty big problem because it means that you can blow through the game pretty quickly and get bored of it. This is especially a problem for XY because there's so little meat to it that you have to go back 10 years to even find a game that's comparable, but ORAS also is pretty lacking compared to other third versions/remakes/sequels.

EVERY. POKEMON. GAME. HAS. HAD. BASICALLY. THE. SAME. POST. GAME. STRUCTURE. FROM. GEN. 4-IV. Why can you not understand this?

I get that there are some basic similarities, but there's still a difference in size and amount of content between games.

Bolt_Strike

3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

-Juice-

Bolt_Strike wrote:

BlatantlyHeroic wrote:

Bolt_Strike wrote:

BlatantlyHeroic wrote:

Bolt_Strike wrote:

BlatantlyHeroic wrote:

We were talking about "new areas" in the post games.

Okay, well you're still missing a few areas, like:

FRLG: Sevii Islands
DPPt: Snowpoint Temple, Rt. 224
BW1: East Unova, Dreamyard basement, Relic Castle maze, Challenger's Cave
BW2: Southeast Unova, Twist Mountain, Icirrus City, Dragonspiral Tower, Rt. 8, Moor of Icirrus, Tubeline Bridge, Clay Tunnel

And yeah, FRLG, DPPt, BW1, and BW2 have tons of post game areas, enough to form a mini region (5+ routes, several cities, new caves and forests, etc.). XY and ORAS mainly have one city and some other, incredibly minor stuff.

Have you ever thought of, oh I don't know, restarting your game after you beat everything like most gamers who play Pokemon do? TLoZ games don't have a post game, but people like to play those over and over. Red/Blue/Yellow didn't have a post game, but people liked to play those over and over. Post game is really just a minor thing no matter how much you have. It's just little extra meaningless tasks after your adventure is over. It has no impact, your story is done anyway. The real meat in any game is in the adventure itself, not what happens afterwards.

Post game is not meaningless. The point is to have more things to do after you beat the game so that you don't get bored after finishing, the more there is to do the more you can enjoy the game. So the decrease in post game content is a pretty big problem because it means that you can blow through the game pretty quickly and get bored of it. This is especially a problem for XY because there's so little meat to it that you have to go back 10 years to even find a game that's comparable, but ORAS also is pretty lacking compared to other third versions/remakes/sequels.

EVERY. POKEMON. GAME. HAS. HAD. BASICALLY. THE. SAME. POST. GAME. STRUCTURE. FROM. GEN. 4-IV. Why can you not understand this?

I get that there are some basic similarities, but there's still a difference in size and amount of content between games.

And ORAS has the most legendary Pokemon to hunt and capture, it has houses you can make and customize for your own character, and it has a competitive area. Also, these games are more friendly towards hardcore players considering how easy it is to breed Pokemon and battle people online in generation 6. They're the definitive Pokemon games now, like it or not. If you want to play DPP, go play them. For most of us though, the GB-DS generation is too outdated, too featureless, and quite frankly doesn't hold up when compared to the gameplay and looks of the newer games. There are literally no reasons why anyone should say one of those is more definitive than XY/ORAS unless they just can't handle new things.

3DS Friend Code: 0962-9923-0016

Bolt_Strike

BlatantlyHeroic wrote:

And ORAS has the most legendary Pokemon to hunt and capture, it has houses you can make and customize for your own character, and it has a competitive area.

You can do more than that in past games.

BlatantlyHeroic wrote:

Also, these games are more friendly towards hardcore players considering how easy it is to breed Pokemon and battle people online in generation 6.

Hardcore =/= competitive.

BlatantlyHeroic wrote:

For most of us though, the GB-DS generation is too outdated, too featureless, and quite frankly doesn't hold up when compared to the gameplay and looks of the newer games. There are literally no reasons why anyone should say one of those is more definitive than XY/ORAS unless they just can't handle new things.

Most of it boils down to graphics, and that's a pretty superficial reason in the first place since the graphics add nothing of significance. Things like the PSS and Fairy type are a bit more significant, but they're not game breaking. But that's all relative, they can easily remedy those things with future remakes. Beyond that, you're completely wrong, the gameplay is worse. 3rd and 4th gen offered much more in terms of region design and content, and it's a much better standard for Pokemon games.

Now if you want definitive, try a DP remake with Platinum's Sinnoh Dex, the Battle Frontier, 5th, 6th, and 7th gen features, and improved storyline like ORAS, but of course they're not going to do all of that because Game Freak doesn't think kids have time to play good games anymore. :/

Edited on by Bolt_Strike

Bolt_Strike

3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

Joetherocker

I don't see how anyone could argue that Pokemon games have ever been hardcore when I beat Yellow with only a Pidgeot and some HM pokemon as a kid.

Wild signature appeared!

3DS FC: 4270-1110-7770

IceClimbers

@Bolt_Strike Pokemon's gameplay has only changed because of new mechanics added. Pokemon's gameplay is catching, training, and battling, while connecting with others to battle and trade. The connectivity is the best in Gen 6. Fairy type is a game changer because that changes battles. That's crucial to Pokemon's gameplay. The competitive side of Pokemon was catered to more in Gen 6 than in previous generations as they simplified the IV breeding and EV training processes, which was long and tedious before.

As for the Battle Frontier, it wouldn't have been as challenging as we all remember it because we didn't all have flawless Pokemon with perfect IVs that are EV trained in Gen 3. Trust me, it would have been a LOT easier, as I doubt Game Freak would have made the AI better to compensate. It likely would have been a disappointment.

3DS Friend Code: 2363-5630-0794

Bolt_Strike

IceClimbers wrote:

Pokemon's gameplay has only changed because of new mechanics added. Pokemon's gameplay is catching, training, and battling, while connecting with others to battle and trade. The connectivity is the best in Gen 6. Fairy type is a game changer because that changes battles. That's crucial to Pokemon's gameplay. The competitive side of Pokemon was catered to more in Gen 6 than in previous generations as they simplified the IV breeding and EV training processes, which was long and tedious before.

Pokemon selection and trainer rosters are also part of gameplay.

IceClimbers wrote:

As for the Battle Frontier, it wouldn't have been as challenging as we all remember it because we didn't all have flawless Pokemon with perfect IVs that are EV trained in Gen 3. Trust me, it would have been a LOT easier, as I doubt Game Freak would have made the AI better to compensate. It likely would have been a disappointment.

The Battle Maison's AI is haxy, I don't see why the Battle Frontier's wouldn't be.

Bolt_Strike

3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

Blast

Pokemon Platinum isn't just my favorite Pokemon game... Its all my favorite game of all time for various reasons. I think PK X/Y wasn't even that bad. There's just alotta wasted potential in those games. I hear ORAS is actually really good. But you know... I just don't buy every Pokemon game anymore. For me... I need to see 3 things: a great villain, player customization and Battle Frontier. If a Pokemon game comes out and it doesn't have any of those 3 things then I am much more hesitant to buy it. That's just my opinion.

I own a Wii U and 3DS. I also own a PS4!

Master of the Hype Train

3DS Friend Code: 2921-9690-6053 | Nintendo Network ID: Mediking9

Bolt_Strike

Blast wrote:

Pokemon Platinum isn't just my favorite Pokemon game... Its all my favorite game of all time for various reasons. I think PK X/Y wasn't even that bad. There's just alotta wasted potential in those games. I hear ORAS is actually really good. But you know... I just don't buy every Pokemon game anymore. For me... I need to see 3 things: a great villain, player customization and Battle Frontier. If a Pokemon game comes out and it doesn't have any of those 3 things then I am much more hesitant to buy it. That's just my opinion.

Well no, XY isn't a terrible game, but it is massively underwhelming. It having wasted potential is exactly the problem, they could've made the games so much better than they were if they weren't stuck on this "kids don't have time for video games" mentality.

Bolt_Strike

3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

-Juice-

Bolt_Strike wrote:

Blast wrote:

Pokemon Platinum isn't just my favorite Pokemon game... Its all my favorite game of all time for various reasons. I think PK X/Y wasn't even that bad. There's just alotta wasted potential in those games. I hear ORAS is actually really good. But you know... I just don't buy every Pokemon game anymore. For me... I need to see 3 things: a great villain, player customization and Battle Frontier. If a Pokemon game comes out and it doesn't have any of those 3 things then I am much more hesitant to buy it. That's just my opinion.

Well no, XY isn't a terrible game, but it is massively underwhelming. It having wasted potential is exactly the problem, they could've made the games so much better than they were if they weren't stuck on this "kids don't have time for video games" mentality.

It was underwhelming to you and the rest of the minority, to the majority of us who actually like Pokemon and have open minds, it was pretty good, not the best, but it did a lot of things right, some things wrong, but was overall still enjoyable and lived up to the expectations we had set out from what Gamefreak had told us was in it. You don't like the new games? Don't play them. That simple. Move on to something else that's more "hardcore". Go play something like Monster Hunter or Fire Emblem. They're great RPG's and seem to be what your'e looking for. Pokemon itself is really its own genre. It's not just about battling and leveling up, it's also about trading with friends and growing a bond with your team. It always has been ever since the Gameboy days.

3DS Friend Code: 0962-9923-0016

Blast

The Pokémon series is caught in between the young kid audience (good and bad thing) and the older audience who wants different things while staying true to the formula and the audience who thinks Gamefreak always delivers must buy games. I honesty want Gamefreak to make a spinoff Pokemon series for older gamers. Let Monolith handle it or any other good Nintendo studio while Gamefreak is the supervisor. So much potential... Heck, a really well written Pokemon game could be as huge as Persona or whatever.

I own a Wii U and 3DS. I also own a PS4!

Master of the Hype Train

3DS Friend Code: 2921-9690-6053 | Nintendo Network ID: Mediking9

Bolt_Strike

Blast wrote:

The Pokémon series is caught in between the young kid audience (good and bad thing) and the older audience who wants different things while staying true to the formula and the audience who thinks Gamefreak always delivers must buy games. I honesty want Gamefreak to make a spinoff Pokemon series for older gamers. Let Monolith handle it or any other good Nintendo studio while Gamefreak is the supervisor. So much potential... Heck, a really well written Pokemon game could be as huge as Persona or whatever.

You act like it's rocket science to appeal to both groups at once, but it's not. There's some simple things they can do to make it accessible to both audiences. First of all, bring back multiple difficulties and make them available from the start, that way the game can accommodate the player's difficulty. You know, like what every other RPG on earth does? Second, design the regions so that they have a linear "skeleton" but have tons of optional routes and side paths. That way it's simple enough for people that just want to get through the game but there's enough content for people that want to veer off and explore. Then they have a solid, balanced formula that appeals to everyone and it's just a matter of deciding what Pokemon and extra features they want to include.

Bolt_Strike

3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

KryptoniteKrunch

Bolt_Strike wrote:

Blast wrote:

The Pokémon series is caught in between the young kid audience (good and bad thing) and the older audience who wants different things while staying true to the formula and the audience who thinks Gamefreak always delivers must buy games. I honesty want Gamefreak to make a spinoff Pokemon series for older gamers. Let Monolith handle it or any other good Nintendo studio while Gamefreak is the supervisor. So much potential... Heck, a really well written Pokemon game could be as huge as Persona or whatever.

You act like it's rocket science to appeal to both groups at once, but it's not. There's some simple things they can do to make it accessible to both audiences. First of all, bring back multiple difficulties and make them available from the start, that way the game can accommodate the player's difficulty. You know, like what every other RPG on earth does? Second, design the regions so that they have a linear "skeleton" but have tons of optional routes and side paths. That way it's simple enough for people that just want to get through the game but there's enough content for people that want to veer off and explore. Then they have a solid, balanced formula that appeals to everyone and it's just a matter of deciding what Pokemon and extra features they want to include.

Bring back difficulties? I assume you meant add in difficulties because I've been playing Pokemon since gen. 1 and there have never been difficulties you can select. Anyway, I agree. Adding difficulties would be cool.

Now playing: SEGA Genesis Collection, Starlink, Smash Bros Ultimate

Nintendo Network ID: KryptoniteKrunch

Bolt_Strike

KryptoKrunch wrote:

Bolt_Strike wrote:

Blast wrote:

The Pokémon series is caught in between the young kid audience (good and bad thing) and the older audience who wants different things while staying true to the formula and the audience who thinks Gamefreak always delivers must buy games. I honesty want Gamefreak to make a spinoff Pokemon series for older gamers. Let Monolith handle it or any other good Nintendo studio while Gamefreak is the supervisor. So much potential... Heck, a really well written Pokemon game could be as huge as Persona or whatever.

You act like it's rocket science to appeal to both groups at once, but it's not. There's some simple things they can do to make it accessible to both audiences. First of all, bring back multiple difficulties and make them available from the start, that way the game can accommodate the player's difficulty. You know, like what every other RPG on earth does? Second, design the regions so that they have a linear "skeleton" but have tons of optional routes and side paths. That way it's simple enough for people that just want to get through the game but there's enough content for people that want to veer off and explore. Then they have a solid, balanced formula that appeals to everyone and it's just a matter of deciding what Pokemon and extra features they want to include.

Bring back difficulties? I assume you meant add in difficulties because I've been playing Pokemon since gen. 1 and there have never been difficulties you can select. Anyway, I agree. Adding difficulties would be cool.

BW2 actually did have multiple difficulty modes, but they implemented it in the most backwards way possible. You could only unlock them by beating the game and they were version exclusive (Challenge Mode was in Black 2, Easy Mode was in White 2). If you wanted to start out with them you had to communicate locally with someone who's already unlocked them. So not a lot of people could really make use of them.

Bolt_Strike

3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

Haru17

Bolt Strike is complaining about a number of things in ORAS by misrepresenting them, though I won't enumerate them all (god knows this threat has enough bulleted lists already).

'E's also betraying his/her character flaws by calling people casual.

Challenge is a reductive and ultimately poor metric for measuring art like games. A far better measure would be quality in the form of well-made gameplay or narratives. Ergo, Inquisition's gr8, git gud m8.

Don't hate me because I'm bnahabulous.

DefHalan

*Looks at Sales Numbers

Pokemon is doing fine at capturing (get it) all types of audiences. I have played every Pokemon game (Gen 2 remakes having the least amount of time put into them) and I have enjoyed all of them. There is enough simplicity for the average adult to understand and enough complexity for children to put hundreds of hours into them. All Pokemon games are great.

Back to the topic, I think X/Y would be the easiest to start with as it is a less complicated experience. ORAS is more complicated with a bunch of new features and could overwhelm some people with no Pokemon knowledge. ORAS are great games but if it is a question of which one first I say X/Y. If it is a question of one or the other, that is a much harder decision.

Edited on by DefHalan

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

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