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Topic: Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam

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Socar

I wonder who the main villian of this crossover will be.....usually crossover villains aren't that great.

Edited on by Socar

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creativity is the insane possibility.

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TheSuperStarSaga

MARIO & LUIGI PAPER JAM MIGHT NOT FEATURE ANY ORIGINAL CHARACTERS (such as Fawful or Dimentio, ect)

While everyone is excited about this crossover, I recommend you analyze what we've been shown so far. In Mario & Luigi Paper Jam, there seem to be no Original Characters from Paper Mario (no sign of Koops, Merlin, Twink, Goombella, ect) and no Original Characters from Mario & Luigi other than Starlow (no sign of Popple, Toadbert, Beanish people, Shroobs, ect). Bowser seems to be the main villain once again (Most Mario RPGs have 2 villains, bowser and another one such as Cackletta, Princess Shroob, Shadow Queen, Smithy, Dimentio, ect). In this game, it also seems like Paper Luigi is not present, which is reminiscent to Paper Luigi's minimal and dialogue-less appearance in Paper Mario Sticker Star. This is concerning. What made Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi so awesome was its cast of Original Characters, and its great story. It seems Nintendo is trying to force Mario RPG games to feature no Original Characters (other than the essential Kersti and Starlow) and have ONLY Toads and other established enemies from the Mario games.

Miyamoto expressed his strong dislike for Mario games having good storylines (source, this is a fact read this article: http://www.wired.com/2009/06/super-mario-galaxy-2/ ) He has been trying to get rid of story in Mario ever since, even in the RPGs. One staff member tried to sneak and write more story into Mario, but Miyamoto got mad at him ( source: http://www.wired.com/2007/12/interview-super/). The poor guy got in trouble for trying to make Mario games more enjoyable.

Paper Mario Sticker Star was an odd paper Mario. It didn't have the great story the previous Paper Marios and Sticker Star featured NO Original Characters except for toads, toads, and more toads and basic Mario enemies. The reason why is because Miyamoto purposely told the Paper Mario developers to give the game little to no storyline, and no original characters (this is a fact, read the source: http://kotaku.com/5964444/miyamoto-...d-paper-mario-sticker-s... ). Its lack of Orginal Characters were quite evident, even Luigi had no dialogue (which he normally does in Paper Mario) and few appearances. The story of Paper Mario Sticker Star was minimal, and Bowser had no dialogue at all.

Mario and Luigi Dream Team fortunately had a lot of original characters, enemies, and a fantastic story. But I fear it will be the last Mario RPG of its kind. It seems Sticker Stars removal of Original Characters and storyline will be ordered by Miyamoto/Nintendo upon Mario and Luigi Dream Team.

Paper Mario is made by Intelligent Systems, Mario & Luigi is made by Alpha Dream. Mario is owned by Nintendo and Miyamoto. Miyamoto has slowly been ordering third party devs like Intelligent Systems to remove story and Original Characters. If Mario & Luigi Paper Jam has no Original Characters or a decent Storyline, the fault is of Miyamoto and Nintendo.

We need to raise awareness for the fans love of story in Mario RPGs and the Original Characters it has. If we don't Mario RPG games will lose their story and their soul. Metroid fans made a lot of noise by making a petition to cancel federation force. I do not in the slightest suggest we do the same. I am excited for Mario & Luigi Paper Jam and can't wait for its release. BUT we need to raise noise that Mario & Luigi Paper jam not having Original Characters, only Toads and Basic Mario enemies, and little to no story is NOT acceptable.

TLDR:

Sticker Star had no Original Characters and a minimal story as it was ordered not to have any by Miyamoto. Miyamoto ordered Intelligent Systems the Paper Mario Developers “‘It’s fine without a story, so do we really need one?’ And, ‘As much as possible, complete it with only characters from the Super Mario world'". (source: http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/11/latest_iwata_asks_ep...)

Dream Team was ordered the same thing presumably but Alpha Dream fought back against Nintendos orders. "The requests and suggestions by Nintendo on Alpha Dream were not always accepted and often required meetings, or discussions with the SPD producers. Sometimes both parties got annoyed with each other." (source: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=67599871postcount=1)

I fear that seeing only toads, only basic Mario enemies, No sign of Paper Luigi or any Original Characters from Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi (other than Starlow) is a sign that Nintendo/Miyamoto have finally gotten their way. I could be wrong, I hope I'm wrong. But being proactive is better than being reactive.

Edited on by TheSuperStarSaga

Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga DX + Bowsers Minions looks perfect.... except for the needless removal of the Flight Suit Koopas. Never going to get over that.

Smash_kirby

@DreamyViridi: It sounds really similar to Kingdom hearts, given the fact the same composer working on it.

Smash_kirby

NintendoFan64

@TheSuperStarSaga We've only seen ONE trailer so far. Just relax. It doesn't represent everything that's in the game.

There is nothing here...except for the stuff I just typed...

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Joeynator3000

Like I said in the locked thread, let's wait until we get another trailer and some actual info of the game.

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MajorasMax

Revived Fawful and Mr. L!
I want them to work together and be the amazing villians these two are!
I know that this fink-rats at Nintendo will NEVER do that, but it would be amazing!

MajorasMax

TheSuperStarSaga

MajorasMax wrote:

Revived Fawful and Mr. L!
I want them to work together and be the amazing villians these two are!
I know that this fink-rats at Nintendo will NEVER do that, but it would be amazing!

Might not happen, Miyamoto doesn't like Original Characters, read my post above for more detail.

Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga DX + Bowsers Minions looks perfect.... except for the needless removal of the Flight Suit Koopas. Never going to get over that.

Danksparce

TheSuperStarSaga wrote:

MajorasMax wrote:

Revived Fawful and Mr. L!
I want them to work together and be the amazing villians these two are!
I know that this fink-rats at Nintendo will NEVER do that, but it would be amazing!

Might not happen, Miyamoto doesn't like Original Characters, read my post above for more detail.

The ravings of a madman.

I'm not even supposed to be here today.

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TheSuperStarSaga

Darth_Vader wrote:

TheSuperStarSaga wrote:

MajorasMax wrote:

Revived Fawful and Mr. L!
I want them to work together and be the amazing villians these two are!
I know that this fink-rats at Nintendo will NEVER do that, but it would be amazing!

Might not happen, Miyamoto doesn't like Original Characters, read my post above for more detail.

The ravings of a madman.

Your a moderator, calling me a madman would count as flaming. Follow your own rules please.

And no, I am not a conspiracy nut. I have evidence: Miyamoto expressed his strong dislike for Mario games having good storylines (source, this is a fact read this article: http://www.wired.com/2009/06/super-mario-galaxy-2/ ) He has been trying to get rid of story in Mario ever since, even in the RPGs. One staff member tried to sneak and write more story into Mario, but Miyamoto got mad at him ( source: http://www.wired.com/2007/12/interview-super/). The poor guy got in trouble for trying to make Mario games more enjoyable.

Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga DX + Bowsers Minions looks perfect.... except for the needless removal of the Flight Suit Koopas. Never going to get over that.

Joeynator3000

facepalms, lol

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Danksparce

Since when was Wired a reputable source?

Seriously there is a single trailer, stop trying to go all Columbo.

Edited on by Danksparce

I'm not even supposed to be here today.

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DefHalan

Megumi wrote:

facepalms, lol

I think now is the time for popcorn gifs

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

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Joeynator3000

....Miyamoto hates story in Mario games because of ONE game? Really?

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Keep it PG-13-ish.

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NintendoFan64

Just ignore him, people. Maybe he'll go away.

MajorasMax wrote:

Revived Fawful and Mr. L!
I want them to work together and be the amazing villians these two are!
I know that this fink-rats at Nintendo will NEVER do that, but it would be amazing!

To be honest, I think Mr. L would be better suited as a rookie for Popple. But still, that would be awesome.

There is nothing here...except for the stuff I just typed...

3DS Friend Code: 5284-1716-7555 | Nintendo Network ID: michaelmcepic

TheSuperStarSaga

Megumi wrote:

....Miyamoto hates story in Mario games because of ONE game? Really?

He is trying to give all Mario games little to no story on purpose, and its not just one game. Just hear me out.

He purposely gave Mario Galaxy 2 little to no story (details: http://www.wired.com/2009/06/super-mario-galaxy-2/), He got mad at a staff member for trying to give Mario games more story (details: http://www.wired.com/2007/12/interview-super/). He ordered Intelligent Systems to give Paper Mario Sticker star little to no story, as well as removing all the orginal characters. He said "‘It’s fine without a story, so do we really need one?’ And, ‘As much as possible, complete it with only characters from the Super Mario world" (source: http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/11/latest_iwata_asks_ep...). And he presumably tried to do the same for dream team but failed, "The requests and suggestions by Nintendo on Alpha Dream were not always accepted and often required meetings, or discussions with the SPD producers. Sometimes both parties got annoyed with each other." (source: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=67599871postcount=1)

Thats a lot of games he tried to nerf story and get rid of original characters. Thats clear evidence he doesn't want Mario to have any story whatsoever. Even in Mario RPGs where story and characters are crucial.

Edited on by TheSuperStarSaga

Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga DX + Bowsers Minions looks perfect.... except for the needless removal of the Flight Suit Koopas. Never going to get over that.

Joeynator3000

...................So who do you guys think will be possessed next in this game, since Paper Mario is involved. lol

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TheSuperStarSaga

NintendoFan64 wrote:

Just ignore him, people. Maybe he'll go away.

Thats not very nice.

Look I'm not a troll or a hater. I'm a fan of Mario just like you all, we're on the same side here. I love Intelligent System's Paper Mario Series and AlphaDream's Mario&Luigi series. What I DON'T like is Nintendo EAD (specifically Miyamoto) ordering the less powerful developers (the people who actually make the game) such as Intelligent Systems and AlphaDream to ditch the story and characters. There has been evidence of this happening wich I have stated many times on this thread.

You people need to open your eyes and realize that Miyamoto is trying to give all Mario games (even RPGs) as little story as possible and remove the original characters (such as popple, or dimentio, or goombella, ect).

Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga DX + Bowsers Minions looks perfect.... except for the needless removal of the Flight Suit Koopas. Never going to get over that.

Danksparce

How about a third mario gets possessed (Say NSMB Mario).

Mario and Mario vs Mario.

I'm not even supposed to be here today.

3DS Friend Code: 0688-5519-2711 | My Nintendo: pokefraker | Nintendo Network ID: pokefraker

Joeynator3000

Darth_Vader wrote:

How about a third mario gets possessed (Say NSMB Mario).

Mario and Mario vs Mario.

............Wat? xD

Pokemon Stream Clip
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Keep it PG-13-ish.

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TheSuperStarSaga

Darth_Vader wrote:

Since when was Wired a reputable source?

Seriously there is a single trailer, stop trying to go all Columbo.

Why do you need to be so agressive to me? I'm just trying to have a discussion regarding Miyamoto removing story elements from Mario RPG games. Have you not read this article? " Kensuke Tanabe, the game's producer, revealed that at the very beginning of the whole project Miyamoto said he wanted to change the atmosphere of the game and threw down two challenges: “‘It’s fine without a story, so do we really need one?’ And, ‘As much as possible, complete it with only characters from the Super Mario world'" " (Source is valid, it comes from this VERY website: http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/11/latest_iwata_asks_ep...)

Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga DX + Bowsers Minions looks perfect.... except for the needless removal of the Flight Suit Koopas. Never going to get over that.

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