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Topic: Kid Icarus: Uprising Spotpass Weapons

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KRO

KRO

15,721. Posted:

108 different combinations with stars? Your math is a bit off. 13*13*108 is more like it.

Whenever I go online, there's this tb*¥>פ₩¡} with a Magnus Club or Sliptracks using Bumblebee and some other powers. They're there, at least when I'm on. Still, different time zones

Not being rude here, but I guess it seems a bit more complex to you than I experience it.

I'm not against modifiers myself, I just proposed a question to get some discussion going

Jazz: There's still powers

Edited on by KRO

KRO

AuthorMessage
Jazzer94Staff

Jazzer94

15,722. Posted:

KRO wrote:

Jazz: There's still powers

When I said items I was including powers as both have usage limits.

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KRO

KRO

15,723. Posted:

If you die, you get back some powers

KRO

AuthorMessage
Jazzer94Staff

Jazzer94

15,724. Posted:

KRO wrote:

If you die, you get back some powers

I'm aware of that I do own the game, I feel your missing my point.

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Prof_Clayton

Prof_Clayton

15,725. Posted:

Now, I am not attacking you, just explaining my point of view.

KRO wrote:

Stars are intact.

Yes, it is true that the fusion would lose some depth as I said, but then again, the fusion isn't very deep already. Playstyle matters more. Oh, and powers.
Fusion is actually immensely deep, you should really look into it. Every little change affects a match in some way, so they are all important. Playstyle matters, but I believe the matter at hand is the weapons.
Regarding the mechanics, I understand what you say, but I don't think you understand what I say. What is one of the drawbacks that prevents Predator Cannon from being absolutely devastating? Its lackluster range, and needing homing boost for its backwards dash charged shot to always hit. This is a UNIQUE example, since other weapons can't rely on BDCS alone, Predator can. The most OP weapons are the ones are those who rely on good modifiers or powers in order to be OP. I mentioned Ninja Palm and Predator Cannon. Without some homing boost, it will just launch a cannonball in front of the user, not chase enemies into their demise.
Right... let me explain. With its extra stacking into mods, the Predator cannon can have a better BDCS than any other weapon with the same thing put into BDCS. Now, remove the mods. The Predator is still that much better than everything else. Removing the stats just makes all of the weapons do less damage, but again, Predator is still OP when compared to everything else.

Randoms don't care about banlists.
This is kinda random, but ok.

Also, "unique weapons"? You mean one weapon that does 77 damage on a charge shot and one that does 78? That doesn't make them unique.
Actually, it does. It'll kill approx. 1/222 more times actually. If you have about 20000 kills without this, you'd actually have more like 20080 kills. And anything which makes something different from everything else makes it unique.
I mean, the only modifiers you should care about are those regarding speed, defense, evasion, range and homing plus a couple more depending on what weapons you're using.
Not really. Any mod is useful. In fact, give me any one of these 'useless' mods and I will tell you why it is useful

The mods add a lot to the game, so much that every weapon is unique and every little stat counts.

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New_3DaSh_XL

New_3DaSh_XL

15,726. Posted:

KRO wrote:

108 different combinations with stars? Your math is a bit off. 13*13*108 is more like it.

DashChargedShot wrote:

I know stars are intact. If they weren't, there'd be 108 possible combinations instead of the 18,252 I said there would be Edit note: would be if there was stars, since you don't seems to understand my crystal clear sentence, hypothetically.

By the way, 13 x 13 x 108 = 18252. Perhaps you should actually read what I say before posting? It makes you sound at least somewhat believable.

KRO wrote:

Whenever I go online, there's this tb*¥>פ₩¡} with a Magnus Club or Sliptracks using Bumblebee and some other powers. They're there, at least when I'm on. Still, different time zones

I didn't say there weren't those people. But, there aren't many. Regardless, I went off topic there, but you said a random comment and I felt like saying something random but having somewhat to do with what you said.

KRO wrote:

Not being rude here, but I guess it seems a bit more complex to you than I experience it.

Probably because it is more complex than you're imagining it to be. Modifiers are a major mechanic of the game. One of the if not the most major mechanic, really. Taking them out would essentially be taking away a huge chunk of the game.

KRO wrote:

Modifiers don't add much depth, in my opinion

Reread what I said about everything that would be affected by taking out mods and realize how much of the game that really is.

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Cyb3Rnite

Cyb3Rnite

15,727. Posted:

Now, if we were talking about Smash Brothers (or Biology), I wouldn't be incredibly confused right now.
Well, it's less "confused" and more "too lazy to read," actually.

Edited on by Cyb3Rnite

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KRO

KRO

15,728. Posted:

DCS: I misread that. No need to act all passive aggressive. I mentioned randoms because you mentioned banlists, I didn't pull that statement from my bum

Clay: As I've stated, I do understand how modifiers works, but there is a little flaw in what you just said there. If a fighter has 221 HP, it does not always matter if you do 150 damage or 180. You will always need two hits to kill him. This is not always the case obviously, they can be injured or have defense mods, but my point is that 10% damage does not guarantee 10% more victories.

I think you still misunderstand, so let me ask one question to help you out: What is OP about the Predator Cannon, and why?

Here's a bad modifier: Poison. Does very little damage, inferior to burning in terms of damage and a waste of value.

Edited on by KRO

KRO

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Prof_Clayton

Prof_Clayton

15,729. Posted:

KRO wrote:

DCS: I misread that. No need to act all passive aggressive. I mentioned randoms because you mentioned banlists, I didn't pull that statement from my bum

Clay: As I've stated, I do understand how modifiers works, but there is a little flaw in what you just said there. If a fighter has 221 HP, it does not always matter if you do 150 damage or 180. You will always need two hits to kill him. This is not always the case obviously, they can be injured or have defense mods, but my point is that 10% damage does not guarantee 10% more victories.
Right, and my point was that if you can deal one more point damage, you will take them out if they have 221 HP for example, if you couldn't before. 222 is obviously the best damage, but as you pointed out every situation is unique. I don't understand the point you're trying to make, as you just proved mine I believe?

I think you still misunderstand, so let me ask one question to help you out: What is OP about the Predator Cannon, and why?
It has the best BDCS base stats in the game. Good homing, strength and decent range without mods. I believe you are missing the point; if every weapon had no homing, this would still have the most.

Here's a bad modifier: Poison. Does very little damage, inferior to burning in terms of damage and a waste of value.
Posion can be useful in order to do a number of things. For one, some damage is dealt. It also gets the largest boost from status effect plus out of any status effect. It can also be used to kill those with defenses giving them just enough HP to survive a OHKO. And it can be a mental hinderance/distraction for those afflicted, messing with vision and hearing. And it can prevent them from using energy charge for a section of time. And it can even be used on a weapon like Viper Blade to hit the status effect +5 cap to deal some good extra damage reliably. It serves a different purpose from burning, which is faster to use but dies out quicker, dealing less damage usually.

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KRO

KRO

15,730. Posted:

Decent range? Predator? The BDCS just lobs it right in front of the user. It would lose its trick, chasing opponents and getting a guaranteed hit. I know it's still pretty powerful, but it would shrink the gap between Predator and other cannons.

I'm saying that tiny changes will almost never be decisive for a match. Remember that if modifiers were gone, stars would probably count more than they do now. Otherwise, no weapon could have a value more than 280 something

If you're poisoned, you can still use Energy Charge. I'd say it's smarter to invest some points in another modifier, as poison is in almost any scenario inferior to something else you could slap on.

KRO

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New_3DaSh_XL

New_3DaSh_XL

15,731. Posted:

KRO wrote:

I'm saying that tiny changes will almost never be decisive for a match.

Untitled
Do you know how many times I've won/lost a match because of very, very tiny differences in value? Seriously, within maybe 20 points? Oh, and do you know how many times I've won/lost a match because a weapon is just slightly more/less powerful than mine? And how about how many times I've won/lost a match because of just the tiniest of flaws in my or my opponent's weapon? Yeah, your entire argument crumbles if that's what you're trying to prove.

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Jazzer94Staff

Jazzer94

15,732. Posted:

@KRO Tiny changes actually can greatly affect the way a game plays a good example is the difference between Melee and Brawl.

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Tricoloryoshi

Tricoloryoshi

15,733. Posted:

Alright, time for me to get back into the debate.

KRO wrote:

It's not like the modifiers shape the entire game.

KRO wrote:

(Blah blah blah Predator) Without extra points in homing or the extra range, it's nowhere as deadly as it is.

Make up your mind. Do they or do they not matter?

Actually, that's all I have to say that hasn't been said already.

KRO wrote:

...the fusion isn't very deep already.

Yeah, no.

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KRO

KRO

15,734. Posted:

Jazzer94 wrote:

@KRO Tiny changes actually can greatly affect the way a game plays a good example is the difference between Melee and Brawl.

but those differences are actually very big and very noticeable

I'll wrap up the discussion now, as it seems neither side has more to say. Not gonna be a bad sport and grab the last word before I say I'm done discussing, so don't expect a reply, Tri

KRO

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Prof_Clayton

Prof_Clayton

15,735. Posted:

KRO wrote:

Jazzer94 wrote:

@KRO Tiny changes actually can greatly affect the way a game plays a good example is the difference between Melee and Brawl.

but those differences are actually very big and very noticeable

You must be playing Kid Icarus wrong.

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Jazzer94Staff

Jazzer94

15,736. Posted:

KRO wrote:

Jazzer94 wrote:

@KRO Tiny changes actually can greatly affect the way a game plays a good example is the difference between Melee and Brawl.

but those differences are actually very big and very noticeable

I'll wrap up the discussion now, as it seems neither side has more to say. Not gonna be a bad sport and grab the last word before I say I'm done discussing, so don't expect a reply,tri

A change doesn't have to be big to have a large effect on something, the changes from Melee to Brawl are small but affect the game a lot.

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KRO

KRO

15,737. Posted:

Prof_Clayton wrote:

KRO wrote:

Jazzer94 wrote:

@KRO Tiny changes actually can greatly affect the way a game plays a good example is the difference between Melee and Brawl.

but those differences are actually very big and very noticeable

You must be playing Kid Icarus wrong.

We were discussing Smash Bros right now

KRO

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New_3DaSh_XL

New_3DaSh_XL

15,738. Posted:

KRO wrote:

Prof_Clayton wrote:

KRO wrote:

Jazzer94 wrote:

@KRO Tiny changes actually can greatly affect the way a game plays a good example is the difference between Melee and Brawl.

but those differences are actually very big and very noticeable

You must be playing Kid Icarus wrong.

We were discussing Smash Bros right now

And, we were comparing the two in order to prove a point, because they could be compared in this instance.

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KRO

KRO

15,739. Posted:

I don't think that's a very fair comparison, though. Smash Bros and Kid Icarus are very different. Heck, one is a fighter, the other one is a third person shooting game. The difference between Brawl and Melee is not comparable to modifiers/no modifiers.

Edited on by KRO

KRO

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Prof_Clayton

Prof_Clayton

15,740. Posted:

KRO wrote:

Prof_Clayton wrote:

KRO wrote:

Jazzer94 wrote:

@KRO Tiny changes actually can greatly affect the way a game plays a good example is the difference between Melee and Brawl.

but those differences are actually very big and very noticeable

You must be playing Kid Icarus wrong.

We were discussing Smash Bros right now

Alright, let me point it out.

KRO wrote:

Jazzer94 wrote:

@KRO Tiny changes actually can greatly affect the way a game plays a good example is the difference between Melee and Brawl.

but those differences are actually very big and very noticeable

Above you say that the differences in smash bros, like changes in slight things, are fairly big and noticeable.

KRO wrote:

I'm saying that tiny changes will almost never be decisive for a match. Remember that if modifiers were gone, stars would probably count more than they do now. Otherwise, no weapon could have a value more than 280 something

But changes the same size in kiu are never important.

So this begs the assumption that you are playing kiu wrong, since the tiny changes in brawl are, as you stated, important. They are in kiu too, and everybody realizes and accepts this as a fact. So your argument is virtually nonexistant, since you seem to not be as expert in the field of kiu as your argument requires you to be.

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