Topic: Is the 3DS Fighter Surge Dead?

^There actually are quite a bit of party fighters, such as SSB. Cartoon Network Punch Time Explosion, a TMNT fighter on Wii, Jump Super/Ultimate Stars I believes, & the upcoming Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale from what I can name off hand.

I personally don't feel like other fighters, like Street Fighter or Tekken, need to drastically change the way they play, either. Doing so would just alienate the fans, and it pretty much wouldn't be Street Fighter or Tekken anymore. That would be like making the next Zelda game play like Ninja Gaiden. Would it be fun? Possibly yes, but it just wouldn't be Zelda.

Also, at all the others saying they don't care,
ect., why would you even click on the topic? Seriously, whenever there's a forum/article about fighters on this site, the users seem to be extra aggressive against them, moreso than other genrés.

There was a surge of fighters on 3DS?

^When the system released, it had SSFIV:3D, DOAD, & Blazblue all in pretty short succession.

And... that's a surge?

Code of Princess just came out, its more the Double Dragon version of a fighting game, but its fighting none the less.

Compared to now... yes.

So if I farted three times in a row, that would be a surge of farts?

^Yep

I'm surprised the surge in Iraq did so well considering it was comprised of just 3 soldiers.

I have a surge of 3 followers on Twitter,yeah I'm that popular.

How is 3 a surge?it seems more like a handful.

Blazblue was good, too, it just lacked online.

Style Savvy: Trendsetters too. It's like a fighting game.

@CowLaunch & @A-Hungry-Banker, yes, because the amount of soldiers deployed during wartime, or the amount of followers someone can obtain on a social network (which usually far outnumbers the amount of people they actually know) is totally comparable to the amount of games released for a particular system in a given amount of time -_-

A surge isn't a set number, but rather a noticeable uptick in occurrence. If you go a few weeks without gaining any new followers on a social network, then all of a sudden gain a few in a short period of time, I'd say you had a quick surge in the number of people following you. Likewise, gaining a few followers for someone who get's that all the time wouldn't be a surge, but gaining something like twenty would (compared to how much they normally get on a regular basis).

Using that logic, I stand by the notion that the 3DS had a quick surge in quality fighting software, compared to now (when releases are few & far between). Furthermore, I don't see what your reasoning is for bringing up what is & isn't a surge in the first place. What does it actually do to further the topic at hand? While platformers, puzzlers, racers, sports, ect, have had a pretty constant stream of releases on 3DS, there has been a noticeable slowdown in the amount of fighters released for it, compared to the beginning of it's life. This discussion is about why you think that is.

Okay, while I can't speak for PSASBR because it isn't out yet, TMNT Smash uses health bars, Punch Time Explosion sucked, and Super and Ultimate Stars weren't released in the united states. Besides that, all of these games would make for really lame parties that spend more time cursing the tv than enjoying beating the snot out of your opponent.

You can say that changing things in any one of these games would make it alienate the fans, but fighting games have a unique problem in that they're all exactly alike. Seriously, what is the difference between Street Fighter, Dead or Alive, Mortal Kombat, Tekken, Marvel Vs Capcom, or Soulcalibur? They all have you memorize needlessly long lists of seriously over complicated combos and react unrealistically fast to obscure animations by your opponent in hopes of taking a health bar down to zero. In SSB, you only need to know like 10 moves, and use those intuitively to react to an opponent's easily readable position and the environment based on platforming. No one has yet gotten this formula right. Some variation in the genre would be nice!

Then again, it's not like most shooting games aren't completely brown with modern military weapons fighting terrorists, or racing games are all essentially adaptations of the Fast and the Furious. Seems like innovation in general is just at at all-time low...

@Neoproteus Have you played Dead or Alive? It's much more about guessing what your oppenent will do in an awesome looking game of rock-paper-scissors than learning combos. It was actually regarded as a party fighter back with DOA 2 and 3, since it was an incredibly easy game to figure out, especially within the genre.

As for no one getting the formula right, maybe you just don't like the genre? Fighting games have never been for everyone. Heck, I never got into them until Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom and Dead or Alive, and even then I only really got into those two.

But they're still party fighters. But thank you for missing his point entirely so you could ramble on about nothing. Not that I'm leaving it untouched:

Lolno, Street Fighter 4 plays nothing like Tekken, which plays nothink like Blazblue, which plays nothing like Marvel vs. Capcom 3, which doesn't even really play like Street Fighter X Tekken. They are a mountain of differences between these game.

Where do I even start? Half of those games aren't even in the same genre for G-dsakes (3D games are different on the most basic levels from 2D Fighters. Especially the ones you listed. The round outs, the lack of special moves, the 3D movement, the list goes on and on), and the rest still aren't even remotely similar (Mortal Kombat is slower paced with very different combo styles and Fatalities at the end of the round. Marvel VS. Capcom is faster paced with super easy combo strings and tag gameplay. Hopefully I shouldn't have to tell you how Street Fighter plays, though it has changed a ton over the years).

Lolno, no. Street Fighter games have 6 moves at most, and not that hard compared to something like King of Fighters. Unless you mean the combos themselves? It's very hard to get off more than a few hits in at a time in Street Fighter, so still no. And 3D fighting games have no special moves, and they did that before Super Smash Bros.

Unrealistically fast? Virtua Fighter, Tekken, and Mortal Kombat say high.
And Obscure animations? What is this, 1999? Fighting games these daysare actually pretty forgiving in the number of animatons you have to pull off a move or combo, and they have been for quite a while.

Next you're gonna complain that every platformer requires you get to the end of a level to complete a level. (which would not only be silly, but actually untrue, as is also the case here. Ring outs, anyone?)

Roughly 30 moves per character, actually. I have the guide the guide book for Melee.

Jump Ultimate Stars fits the bill actually. It doesn't have ringouts, but if it did, Nintendo might sue.

Some variation in your perspective would be nicer. Just because it doesn't slap you accross the face saying "Look at me! I'm different!" doesn't mean there's no variation to be had.

I think your standards for innovation are just too high. Starhawk is not your ordinary shooter, for instance, and there are all kinds of different styles of racing games now. And fighters are all different from eachother. It's just that they're only obvious when you play them (something you probably haven't done). Innovation does not mean reinventing the wheel.

Thank you for starting a fight on the internet for no particular reason. His point was that there are party fighters. Mine was that outside ssb, they suck. That's not nothing, that's a valid point.

Thank you for providing such specific examples instead of stating an unsubstantiated point...

So you can move side to side in some of them, even though the camera is placed the same and the only important distance in the game is how far you are from your opponent. Yeah, 3D movement really makes a difference. If we were talking each player gets their own camera and movement is handled like Dissidia, that would make a difference, but there aren't all that many games doing that... Woo, Mortal Kombat ends rounds in a fatality. The round still plays out the same. So some are faster, or have slightly less lengthy combo lists, still the same. And round-outs aren't important either if it's not the intended means of taking out your opponent. Nice try, but they are the same. Just because you put caramel or cinnamon on an apple or slice the apple differently doesn't mean it's not still an apple. You can still have an orange and appease fighting game fans.

Do you mean special like star power? Or special like special ed? A move is a move. Just because it's called something different doesn't change it's application.

You mean more forgiving as in easier to read, or more forgiving as in more cryptic and therefore easier to pull off a move without worrying about your opponent seeing it coming?

The point of any platformer is to get from point A to point B. That's not really a problem with the genre, that's just how platformers work. You really couldn't do one without that mechanic and still call it a platformer. It's like a racing game having the goal not being to beat the other guys (or the clock) in a race. It just doesn't work.. And ring outs only apply to super smash bros, which was my point, because every other game considers it more likely that you'll take the health bar to zero, and designs the available moves around that. The point of a fighting game is to beat the snot out of your opponent until a victory condition is met. It's a little uncreative that every decent fighting game happens to have the same victory condition outside SSB.

Yes, you have more than 10 moves, but you experiment for 5 minutes and tell me every single one is going to be used. Not to say they're not useful, but you don't need to know them because you roughly know what every character does when you do basic things like point the stick right and press A. You only need to memorize like 10. As opposed to any other fighting game and you have to know what that character will do when you point the stick right and press A because you get something different just for the sake of making the game more difficult.

..and it wasn't released in the US. That doesn't mean I haven't played it. I have. I had my wife translate for me. The platforming doesn't even work very well because characters don't move very far when they are hit. This is a concern I have for PSASBR as well. The game is not designed around manipulating distance from an enemy, or positional combat at all without the main mechanic for death being a ringout. So platforming is pointless.

If it's not obvious at first glance, is a player new to the genre going to know any better? If a smart player has played Tekken, decided it wasn't for them and just watched videos for the others, what are the odds that they would even pick up another fighter before realizing that they're all the same thing? I've actually gone and played all of the ones I listed. They are all the same thing. I've seen games do things differently and do them well. If it's not different enough, it's the same. Like saying you and your twin brother have different fingerprints even though you both speak in unison...

Starhawk? Played it. I love the concept but they fall flat at execution. Looking forward to a sequel because it did innovate, it just needs a little more polish. I'm not saying different styles of racing games don't exist, I'm just saying that 99% of the time you're racing cars in an urban environment. When was the last time you raced anything other than a car? I played the heck out of Hydro Thunder and loved it. I have played them. Don't insult me when you don't know... And while you may not change the fact that a racing game is a contest to get from point A to B faster than something, you might decide whether you're driving a car, or flying a plane, or captaining a ship, or riding a dinosaur, or smashing through buildings with big rigs, or floating a hovercraft, or adding weapons. Reinventing the wheel... not such a bad idea for a racing game at least...

I'm sorry neoproteus you just sound ignorant when you say all fighters are identicle. I suggest you actually play these games for a significant amount of time to see the subtle intricacies that go with a fighting game. Game mechanics vary quite a bit from series to series and slightly less, but they do change, within a series. And before we get the comment about multiple releases of things like Street Fighter and UMvC, the changes they make in newer versions are welcomed by fighting fans such as myself. usually these changes involve tweaking balance and require more than a patch.

How are you satisfied with anything in the entertainment industry? People don't reinvent the wheel on a regular basis, most just work off of what works and change what they can while still being able to make it work. And there's more to fighting games than you know. There's a reason why party fighters are considered a genre all its own. Fighting games are practically a sport. As are competitive shooters and definitely racing games. You can't just change the fundamentals of a sport and still call it the same damn sport. And if you don't like the fundamentals, just don't play them. It's not a problem with the games themselves, it's a problem with you. It's not to your taste, so just move on.

But they do reinvent the wheel! Smash Bros did it for one. If I don't like brown Call of Duty, I can go with Halo or Team Fortress 2. If I don't like street racers, I can play Hydro Thunder or Excite Truck or Fzero of Mario Kart. If I don't like Tekken or Street Fighter, I have a choice between Super Smash Bros and obviously bad games.

I never suggested changing the fundamentals, just to realize what they are and build off of them in a different way.

Once upon a time, I got really into Tekken, Soulcalibur, and Dead or Alive. After a couple years mastering those it got stale, and now when I look for something different that's still a fighting game, I find nothing. Honestly I think Namco will be the first to see the light after having worked on the latest Super Smash Bros game, so I'm hopeful for that. Maybe the other companies will follow when they realize that the ability to pick up and play a game without memorizing anything for a few hours actually does make your game more fun and sell better. On that note I still love Super Smash Bros, and also Dissidia. I just want to see more like them.