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Topic: Is Pokémon Coming To An End?

Posts 221 to 237 of 237

Bolt_Strike

iKhan wrote:

Also, I'm actually not a fan of how X/Y and B/W cut back on the number of HMs you need. I totally get that having to carry around HM slaves sucks, but the solution to that is to replace them with items like a "hatchet" or "boat". Removing the requirement for the tools really impedes the sense of exploration. Having points where the game stops you with a tree, ocean, etc, gives the game a sense of independent progression. Now, when you come across one of these things on what you think may be the main path, it's up to you to find the tool that will get you across. Once you get the tool, you as a player feel like you have more freedom and more places to go.

This is never going to happen. HMs tie into one of the central themes of the series which is people and Pokemon working together, if you could use tools to explore the overworld, then it defeats the purpose of adventuring with your Pokemon. What they need to fix is the concept of field moves, and probably movesets in general. Having to load up your Pokemon with weak moves just to navigate the overworld is a little ridiculous. Moving the HMs out of the main path is a good temporary solution, but they really should fix the moveset half of the equation because HMs are good for puzzles.

Bolt_Strike

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Blast

I want Gamefreak to do what Atlus did with Shin Megami Tensei and Persona. The main Pokemon games can cater to people while a new Pokemon spinoff series offers much more in story and gameplay. A story that actually has complex themes, believable romance, betrayal, etc. Seriously... Atlus or Intelligent Systems or even Monoltih Soft could do wonders with a Pokemon spinoff series. And it doesn't have to be dark just for the sake of being dark. It can have happy moments and some comedy.

The Pokemon series is far from dead... IF.... they start improving regarding story and other key elements.

I own a Wii U and 3DS. I also own a PS4!

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Araquanid

@bolt_strike / @iKhan

I don't necessarly see how the linear path is exactly some major influence to the game's progression. Routes are the exact same in terms of hidden items, different encounters, new trainers, etc etc.. if hoenn or sinnoh was in a straight path, one wouldn't even notice the difference as where each route connects and intercepts each other makes absolutely 0 difference in the game itself. Sure BW was just a complete circle, so was kalos (which on kalos's end is not very innovative copying the previous gen's map) however the only thing these "linear routes" are doing is removing the need to back track in the game. BW had some things you needed to backtrack and find (volcarona, larvesta, kyurem, genies) but otherwise the game continued forward instead of having distractions along the main story or requiring you to turn around after you get an HM to access your next detination (Mt. Cornet DPP, which you pass quite a few times before going to spear pillar).

Overall, a linear "map layout" doesn't influence nothing too different from any other map layout... backtracking was always just something frowned on in gaming, which seems like what we want apparently.. regardless, you're always moving forward in the games no matter what direction the route itself is heading. If you're passing through the same mountain a hundred times (cornet) then obviously the game is taking you no where particularly and doesn't give a sense of direction until you can properly explore that area.

Gym leaders never have more than 3 Pokemon, Elite 4 never have more than 4 Pokemon, etc. It makes the battles anti-climactic and too easy

How is that anti-climactic? If you ask me, that's pokemon polishing up and being neater with their pokemon selection.. if you want someone anti-climactic, look at flint in diamond/pearl.. a fire type E4 member, with only 2 fire types, and the extremely odd occurence, of using a starter pokemon as a part of his team, something only your rival or a victory road character would normally carry. Are we wanting these types of E4s to return? I'm glad flint was patched up a bit with his team in platinum.. but regardless I don't want this randomized formula for what each gym shouldn't have.. something simplistic like a set number of pokes is nothing sort of anti-climacte.

Edited on by Araquanid

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Bolt_Strike

MegaBeedrill wrote:

I don't necessarly see how the linear path is exactly some major influence to the game's progression. Routes are the exact same in terms of hidden items, different encounters, new trainers, etc etc.. if hoenn or sinnoh was in a straight path, one wouldn't even notice the difference as where each route connects and intercepts each other makes absolutely 0 difference in the game itself. Sure BW was just a complete circle, so was kalos (which on kalos's end is not very innovative copying the previous gen's map) however the only thing these "linear routes" are doing is removing the need to back track in the game. BW had some things you needed to backtrack and find (volcarona, larvesta, kyurem, genies) but otherwise the game continued forward instead of having distractions along the main story or requiring you to turn around after you get an HM to access your next detination (Mt. Cornet DPP, which you pass quite a few times before going to spear pillar).

Overall, a linear "map layout" doesn't influence nothing too different from any other map layout... backtracking was always just something frowned on in gaming, which seems like what we want apparently.. regardless, you're always moving forward in the games no matter what direction the route itself is heading. If you're passing through the same mountain a hundred times (cornet) then obviously the game is taking you no where particularly and doesn't give a sense of direction until you can properly explore that area.

It's not just about backtracking, it's about having choice. The entire point of an adventure game such as this one is to give you freedom to explore your surroundings and decide for yourself where to go. Where's the fun in exploring the region if the game is just going to force you to move forward the entire game? The exploration isn't as meaningful with this type of region design.

MegaBeedrill wrote:

How is that anti-climactic? If you ask me, that's pokemon polishing up and being neater with their pokemon selection.. if you want someone anti-climactic, look at flint in diamond/pearl.. a fire type E4 member, with only 2 fire types, and the extremely odd occurence, of using a starter pokemon as a part of his team, something only your rival or a victory road character would normally carry. Are we wanting these types of E4s to return? I'm glad flint was patched up a bit with his team in platinum.. but regardless I don't want this randomized formula for what each gym shouldn't have.. something simplistic like a set number of pokes is nothing sort of anti-climacte.

It's too short and easy a battle if they're only limited to so many Pokemon. Gym Leaders and Elite 4 are supposed to be strong trainers, why do they only use half of their roster spots? Why do rivals, who are supposed to be your equal, only show up at the Pokemon League with 4 or 5 Pokemon? It makes them look like a joke, major battles should be tougher and more complete.

As for Flint, those kinds of roster issues are entirely regional dex problems, there weren't enough Fire types in DP to create a decent roster in the first place. At this point the National Dex is far too large and varied to fall into those problems again.

Edited on by Bolt_Strike

Bolt_Strike

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Eel

I think they should just remove the concept of "permanent" HMs and make them just normal TMs.

Rock Smash went from worst-thing-ever to useful tool right after they made it a TM.

Edited on by Eel

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Bolt_Strike

Morpheel wrote:

I think they should just remove the concept of "permanent" HMs and make them just normal TMs.

Rock Smash went from worst-thing-ever to useful tool right after they made it a TM.

I've never been particularly compelled to use Rock Smash in any game, regardless of whether it's a TM or HM. I might be more willing to use it if the base power wasn't so pathetic, it should be at least 60.

Bolt_Strike

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DefHalan

I think HMs just need to be better moves. Maybe after defeating the Elite 4 they upgrade your HMs to be stronger, to keep balance during the single-player but also make them worth it after.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

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Eel

Well duh, nobody is going to use rock smash as a move in battle.

However, since it's a TM and TMs have unlimited uses, if you need it you can just replace another TM move from one of your Pokemon with rock smash and then replace it back after you're done using it.

If, for example, Cut or Strength could do that they would be much much more tolerable. Regardless of their usefulness in battle.

Edited on by Eel

Bloop.

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Bolt_Strike

Morpheel wrote:

Well duh, nobody is going to use rock smash as a move in battle.

However, since it's a TM and TMs have unlimited uses, if you need it you can just replace another TM move from one of your Pokemon with rock smash and then replace it back after you're done using it.

If, for example, Cut or Strength could do that they would be much much more tolerable. Regardless of their usefulness in battle.

And what about if it's not a TM move? If it's a level up move you have to waste a Heart Scale every time you want to do that. And what if it's something else and you can't replace it? No, this is entirely the problem with the HM system. They shouldn't force you to sacrifice a Pokemon's battling potential just to progress in the overworld.

Bolt_Strike

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Eel

Chances are at least 4 Pokemon in-game team have learned a TM move. Sometimes even by level.

Be it toxic, return, thunder(bolt), ice beam, etc. It's simply not an issue most of the time.

Edited on by Eel

Bloop.

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Bolt_Strike

Morpheel wrote:

Chances are at least 4 Pokemon in-game team have learned a TM move. Sometimes even by level.

Be it toxic, return, thunder(bolt), ice beam, etc. It's simply not an issue most of the time.

What if it's not the right Pokemon? What if your Water type Pokemon doesn't have any TM moves to replace? And another thing, if you want to reteach them the TM move, you have to go to the Move Deleter. Do you really expect players to have to fly back to the Move Deleter, have him erase the HM move, and then fly to the Move Relearner every time they finish using an HM? In what universe is this acceptable? It is infinitely more convenient to just change how field moves work than to have the players constantly juggle their movesets like this.

Bolt_Strike

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Eel

1) the point of my posts is that "HMs should become normal TMs" (or at least the moves should be replaceable like normal moves).

2) you just described exactly how HMs work currently.

Edited on by Eel

Bloop.

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Bolt_Strike

Morpheel wrote:

1) the point of my posts is that "HMs should become normal TMs" (or at least the moves should be replaceable like normal moves).

2) you just described exactly how HMs work currently.

Then your solution hasn't really fixed anything, has it? Which is exactly my point, converting HMs into TMs solves nothing. The ability to delete moves doesn't make it any easier to progress in the overworld because you still have to go through the hassle of making room on your team or moveset for the requisite move and in most cases, the obstacle doesn't go away after you're done so you'll have to do it all over again the next time you go. And some field moves have good reason to not be deletable because deleting them could potentially allow the player to trap themselves, so that could actually do more harm than good. So no, that's a terrible solution to the HM problem.

Bolt_Strike

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Eel

Since you still have the move, it would be virtually impossible for you to trap yourself.

It could happen before, when you had limited space in your bag and couldn't carry all your H/TMs around, but now it's 100% impossible for you to trap yourself unless you actively go looking for a way to do it (like the magikarp trade trick in DPPt).

Anyway, it seems you simply want to disagree with something.

Edited on by Eel

Bloop.

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Bolt_Strike

Morpheel wrote:

Since you still have the move, it would be virtually impossible for you to trap yourself.

It could happen before, when you had limited space in your bag and couldn't carry all your H/TMs around, but now it's 100% impossible for you to trap yourself unless you actively go looking for a way to do it (like the magikarp trade trick in DPPt).

Anyway, it seems you simply want to disagree with something.

"Virtually impossible" isn't good enough. Even if it is hard to trigger, they shouldn't leave any kind of fatal flaw like that in the game that could potentially break the game like that.

Bolt_Strike

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DefHalan

What if HMs weren't attacks, some Pokemon just knew moves. Say you progress far enough into the story and someone gives you the ability to harness these skills from your Pokemon? It does require you to still bring certain Pokemon to certain areas but now those "skills" don't require move slots? It still make the adventure feel like you are sharing the world with Pokemon but it doesn't negatively effect Pokemon.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

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parapup

I wouldn't really mind if pokemon was ended I kinda slowly stoped following the pokemon series. Besides more room for youkai watch

parapup

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