waltzelf is confused that definitions of terms like this can actually change over time.

Granted, he actually has something resembling a valid point so that puts him above everyone else so whatever.

This is clearly the "you are all wrong" defense for avoiding looking somehow biased..

So pretty much every story ever created automatically makes it not an RPG, even though a game has the exact same gameplay as an RPG?

A genre's definition very rarely changes, actually. Genres sometimes become obscure and 'replaced' by more popular genres, but they don't generally adopt the previous genre's monicker.

So for instance, Gothic literature is essentially extinct, but the horror genre developed out of it. Noir in film died decades ago. We have Mystery or Crime drama now. The RPG genre sees one, perhaps two major releases a year, with the JRPG, SRPG and action RPG genres emerging from it.

Yes and no. The RPG genre is entirely about storytelling. There is nothing else that defines a game as an RPG.

The RPG genre's way of telling stories is to build a world for the player to 'live' within, not to dictate a linear narrative to them. If it doesn't do this, it's not an RPG. One again, the genre is all about player control, not author control.

I can understand how Minecraft is an RPG, but there's also no ability for it to ever develop a story based on your actions, so I see no point.

Minecraft has a very strong narrative. It's one that the player writes for themselves. Play on a multiplayer server, and it even involves interaction with other characters and multiple storylines.

Building a castle in Minecraft is narrative. Heading into the Nether world is narrative. I've head everything from inspirational to depressing stories from Minecraft players. It's the ultimate story making tool,

That's the point about RPGs - a good RPG doesn't have a storyteller dictating to you what your character can and cannot do. A good RPG has the storyteller give you, the player, the tools to explore and be a part of a fantasy world, and then step into the background and let you do your thing.

How do you see an active story being told by your actions though? I have the game for Xbox, and the tutorial pretty much made me abandon the game immediately because I didn't need to know to to build a hammer by doing it, or even need a hammer for what I was going to do at all, which I saw to be frustrating. Tutorials always piss me off. I know how to do that crap already... So just let me play the damn game... and making me go through the process of 'learning' something I already know how to do and not being able to skip will usually make me quit.
Anyways, I still don't see how a story happens within the game. You have complete control over what happens in the game, sure, but I don't see that as being a story telling element. I could build a farm, a town, a castle, or any of that, but I never see that as being part of a story. I just see it as,'I built a castle, look I have a farm, do you like my town with no people it it buy me? I built a traintrack, too...'

Paper Mario Sticker Star, Kingdom Hearts 3D, Denpa Men, Heroes of Ruin, Harvest Moon: A New Beginning, and other RPG's. So yes, I do.

Like I said, I got immediately pissed off at the tutorial because it was trying to teach how to do stuff I didn't want to do, aside from already knowing how to do it besides that. I couldn't skip the tutorial, so I ditched the game all together.

Haven't you heard? Those aren't RPGs. They have a story not designed by you.

Narrative:

"A narrative (or story) is any account that presents connected events, and may be organized into various categories: non-fiction (i.e. New Journalism, creative non-fiction, biographies, and historiography); fictionalized accounts of historical events (i.e. anecdotes, myths and legends); and fiction proper (i.e. literature in prose, such as short stories and novels, and sometimes in poetry and drama, although in drama the events are primarily being shown instead of told). Narrative is found in all forms of human creativity and art, including speech, writing, songs, film, television, video games, photography, theatre, and visual arts such as painting, with the modern art movements refusing the narrative in favour of the abstract and conceptual) that describes a sequence of events."

A dance is a narrative. A classical composition is a narrative. A painting is a narrative.

Minecraft is narrative because the process of building something is a series of connected events. Build a castle and the world of Minecraft has gone from not having a castle to having a castle. There's a beginning, middle, and end. It's a story. It's just not a story that's told to you in a linear fashion.

Haven't you heard? Those aren't RPGs. They have a story not designed by you.

Oh good. So I am getting through.

Ya, but I don't have a reason to build a castle. That's the difference.

I'm still stunned about Barbiegirl and her beliefs. Well it's her opinion and I respect it but I can't in no reality understand it.
Maybe I'm just too "science over religion" to understand it...
Anyways I do believe the 3ds has yet to get many good games not only in the rpg genre but I llanos have no doubt that next year will be big for the 3ds!

No it isn't. You don't need to be given a reason from a game for a narrative to exist. You're making the reason yourself (i.e "I want to build a castle" BAM! Reason).

In Mario I want to get Fire powers. I find a fire flower and BAM.

Mario platformer = rpg

You're getting Fire powers because the game conditions you into believing they're a good thing and that you need them for success. The game is telling you to get Fire powers.

Mario platformer = skill tester and only offers you the illusion of choice. Not RPG.

@WhiteKnight, out of curiosity, have you tried the Denpa Men yet? I believe both the demo & the full game are available in your region now.

He has a Japanese 3DS so he has a crap ton of demos to try

I'm not too much of an RPG gamer, but it doesn't seem like there are too many out. On the other hand, you can't look left or right without seeing a (Fighter) game.
Street Fighter
Tekken 3D
Blaz Blue
Dead or Alive
Just to name a few.. Although I still am hoping for a Mortal Kombat game

Denpa Men is cute - I've got the Japanese version.

Certainly up there with my favourite eShop downloads so far.