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Topic: Gameplay/Graphics: what's it to you?

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Hardy83

101. Posted:

HolyMackerel wrote:

@Hardy83 Has it been confirmed that the 3DS has a weaker graphics processor than devices already on the market? Its graphics look fantastic to me. Got proof? (Not disagreeing, just interested to see the evidence.)

http://uk.gear.ign.com/articles/112/1122613p1.html

It's actually not much different from the PSP, but there are some key things that make a huge graphical difference.

It does have slightly stronger processors, but the thing that makes it is the GPU. It let's the 3DS produce superior lighting and stuff. That's why Resident evil looks so good, but to be honest, without the lighting, I think it would only look slightly better then a PSP game (Look at God of War Ghost of Sparta if you want an example of a PSP game that easily looks as good as anything we've seen on the 3DS)

Course then again, through time the games will look better, but it's already inferior to most Smartphones.
Now I'm not saying the 3DS fails, it looks good, fantastic even with some games, but it'll look outdated sooner rather then later. Graphics aren't everything but they do play a part.

But when it comes out, it'll sure look nice, but there are some handhelds (phones included) that look better then the 3DS already. I think Epics Citadel for the app store is a good example of (at least) Apple's devices already surpassing the 3DS graphically. (For the 10 minutes you can play it. lol Battery tech is the most out of date thing in all handheld devices)

Don't take this as me hating the system, I'll probably get one when it does it's first hardware revision.
I also think Smartphones will start pumping out the same 3D tech the 3DS uses by the end of next year or early 2012. Though I'm hoping they can find SOME glasses free tech for home TVs soon, or at least use the tech where we don't need $300 glasses, just the cheap ones theaters use.

Hardy83

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HolyMackerel

102. Posted:

Wow, Citadel does look great. It shows more the good programming talent available at Epic rather than the device's power though - it's not about the hardware so much as how it's used. Just look at the huge difference between early and late PS2 games. The absolute way to determine this is through comparing the devices' tech specs. I'd like to do a comparison but we don't have reliable details about the 3DS internals yet, and the way the iPhone has been designed makes a direct comparison a little tricky.

Suffice it to say, a lot of developers have related the 3DS's processing power close to the 360 and PS3.

Another issue is that Apple releases new generations of iPhone tech every year or so. The iPhone 5, 6, 7 or whatever will be ahead of the 3DS eventually. Nintendo does nothing of the sort - at least, it doesn't upgrade its device internals significantly. And oddly, Apple has managed to build itself such a rabid fanbase that people don't complain about the new releases and instead are eager for them. If Nintendo was to release a 3DS 2G/Lite or something a year later, people would complain their heads off. See: DS Lite, DSi, DSi XL.

Edited on by HolyMackerel

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Gamesake

103. Posted:

The only thing anyone should be worried about concerning the 3DS and graphics is the health and safety warning mentioned in Nintendo Life's 3DS news article, 3DS Could Cause Eye Problems in Later Life.

I've been reading up on how the 3-D works for movies like Avatar. The picture flickers between the right and left lens. The picture alternates from each side at more than a hundred frames per second. The brain fuses both images together. Both eyes have to work very well together in order to get these three-dimensional images.

If you are looking at an image and it separates, or it gives you two images or distortion, the brain tends to separate off and ignore one image. So you are training that eye to be ignored.

This means that 5 to 10-year-old children with developing eyes could develop a lazy eye.

Edited on by Gamesake

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Bankai

104. Posted:

Gamesake wrote:

The only thing anyone should be worried about concerning the 3DS and graphics is the health and safety warning mentioned in Nintendo Life's 3DS news article, 3DS Could Cause Eye Problems in Later Life.

I've been reading up on how the 3-D works for movies like Avatar. The picture flickers between the right and left lens. The picture alternates from each side at more than a hundred frames per second. The brain fuses both images together. Both eyes have to work very well together in order to get these three-dimensional images.

If you are looking at an image and it separates, or it gives you two images or distortion, the brain tends to separate off and ignore one image. So you are training that eye to be ignored.

This means that 5 to 10-year-old children with developing eyes could develop a lazy eye.

True story: There were all kinds of people and groups that expressed deep concern at Technicolor back when it was a new technology.

That's right. People were concerned that colour movies could hurt eyes.

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theblackdragon

105. Posted:

@WaltzElf: Color images are one thing, but stereoscopic viewing is another. little ones with their young eyes need to learn to focus on normal things IRL and have their vision stabilize (in case they honestly need corrective lenses) before they get used to looking at fake 3D stuff all the time.

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Bankai

106. Posted:

theblackdragon wrote:

@WaltzElf: Color images are one thing, but stereoscopic viewing is another. little ones with their young eyes need to learn to focus on normal things IRL and have their vision stabilize (in case they honestly need corrective lenses) before they get used to looking at fake 3D stuff all the time.

You can apply that to anything, though. Spending too much time in front of ANY screen is bad for developing eyes.

I'm not saying 3D isn't a potential risk, but in moderation, I don't think the typical child is going to suffer

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Aviator

107. Posted:

WaltzElf wrote:

in moderation

There is your problem.

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Bankai

108. Posted:

Aviator wrote:

WaltzElf wrote:

in moderation

There is your problem.

Well, exactly. Drinking too much water will kill you, but it's not something people panic about, is it?

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Aviator

109. Posted:

Well, not so much that, most people get full from drinking lots of water, some people don't look outside when there eyes start to hurt.

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RoyalBlur

110. Posted:

Good exquisite game graphics are everything to me! And no my eyes don't often hurt from computers and prolonged game play although I do try to go outside and get good clean fresh air and exercise.

Edited on by RoyalBlur

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theblackdragon

111. Posted:

WaltzElf wrote:

You can apply that to anything, though. Spending too much time in front of ANY screen is bad for developing eyes.

I'm not saying 3D isn't a potential risk, but in moderation, I don't think the typical child is going to suffer

'moderation' is the key word, there -- yes, we all got those long warnings packaged in with every game while growing up about not playing for too long and be careful if you're sensitive to bright flashing lights and blah-blah-blah, but how many of us really paid any attention to that? and how many of our parents actually came in once an hour to remind us to do something else for fifteen minutes before playing again (i think that's what the recommendation was last i paid attention to it lol)? 3D images messing with your depth perception is a trickier thing than just staring at a 2D image for prolonged periods of time, i would think; if kids were to play a 3D game for as long as they'll sit in front of a television or their DS watching a 2D show/playing a 2D game, it could do more damage to developing eyes.

Edited on by theblackdragon

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WaLzgi

112. Posted:

Hardy83 wrote:

HolyMackerel wrote:

@Hardy83 Has it been confirmed that the 3DS has a weaker graphics processor than devices already on the market? Its graphics look fantastic to me. Got proof? (Not disagreeing, just interested to see the evidence.)

http://uk.gear.ign.com/articles/112/1122613p1.html

It's actually not much different from the PSP, but there are some key things that make a huge graphical difference.

It does have slightly stronger processors, but the thing that makes it is the GPU. It let's the 3DS produce superior lighting and stuff. That's why Resident evil looks so good, but to be honest, without the lighting, I think it would only look slightly better then a PSP game (Look at God of War Ghost of Sparta if you want an example of a PSP game that easily looks as good as anything we've seen on the 3DS)

Course then again, through time the games will look better, but it's already inferior to most Smartphones.
Now I'm not saying the 3DS fails, it looks good, fantastic even with some games, but it'll look outdated sooner rather then later. Graphics aren't everything but they do play a part.

But when it comes out, it'll sure look nice, but there are some handhelds (phones included) that look better then the 3DS already. I think Epics Citadel for the app store is a good example of (at least) Apple's devices already surpassing the 3DS graphically. (For the 10 minutes you can play it. lol Battery tech is the most out of date thing in all handheld devices)

Don't take this as me hating the system, I'll probably get one when it does it's first hardware revision.
I also think Smartphones will start pumping out the same 3D tech the 3DS uses by the end of next year or early 2012. Though I'm hoping they can find SOME glasses free tech for home TVs soon, or at least use the tech where we don't need $300 glasses, just the cheap ones theaters use.

Nintendo's handhelds have ALWAYS looked inferior graphically to the other gadgets on the market, yet they were always successful

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irken004

113. Posted:

Gameplay > graphics.

Why else would I play Super Mario Bros.?

Backloggery

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irken004

114. Posted:

Untitled
Untitled
The top screenshot was from the 1999 version. The bottom screenshot is from the latest edition available on the 360/PS3/PC

Backloggery

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astarisborn94

115. Posted:

@Hardy83: Regarding your argument about the graphics being equally as important as game play, this I totally disagree on. As almost every core gamer would agree on, game play is what makes a game fun and what convinces most core gamers to anticipate it in the first place. Sure visuals should not be neglected you emphasize on, but I don't think it's as important as the game play. I agree that if games looks like last gen that it's a problem and hits the quality of the game overall, but I'm fine with a game looking that it's hitting the mid-level of a console as long as the game is enjoyable in itself.

Also, graphics =/= the power of the console. They can be a good indicator of how powerful a console can be (At least a top-notch looking game), but not a sole judge of a system.

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CanisWolfred

116. Posted:

irken004 wrote:

Untitled
Untitled
The top screenshot was from the 1999 version. The bottom screenshot is from the latest edition available on the 360/PS3/PC

You sure theyre not from the same game? Asside from some prettier gun models, I can't tell the freakin' difference.:P

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CanisWolfred

117. Posted:

Super Smash Bros. Fan1999 wrote:

@Hardy83: Regarding your argument about the graphics being equally as important as game play, this I totally disagree on. As almost every core gamer would agree on, game play is what makes a game fun and what convinces most core gamers to anticipate it in the first place.

Unless everyone I know is weird, pretty graphics seem to be what draws the most attention. You can't truly appreciate the gameplay until you play the game, but great graphics just need a quick glance to impress. Plus, from my understanding, while it is gameplay that makes the experience fun, it's good graphics and music emphasize that to make the experience epic. Just saying.

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Bankai

118. Posted:

I wish people would stop separating graphics and gameplay. One impacts on the other, and there is no such thing as a game that is good because of one isolated element of the game. Either the overall package is good, or the game sucks. Simple as that.

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Gamesake

119. Posted:

WaltzElf wrote:

Aviator wrote:

WaltzElf wrote:

in moderation

There is your problem.

Well, exactly. Drinking too much water will kill you, but it's not something people panic about, is it?

It's not just people, Nintendo is worried too. That's why they gave the warning for children under 7. 3-D viewing won't kill you but it could give you an irreversible eye disorder. Remember when people said video games could help kids train hand-eye coordination? Now video games could help kids train Amblyopia(Lazy eye).

But if you want to throw caution to the wind you might want to look into buying some Gunnar Optiks. http://www.gunnars.com/technology/technology_lensgeometry.php Since I don't know any kid (and few adults) who could moderate themselves to an hour of gaming. I don't know how effective gamer glasses are though and they cost a lot.

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Bankai

120. Posted:

Nintendo has to "be worried" or it would face a PR backlash, or even lawsuits.

It's put warnings in it's products since forever for that reason.

If 3D was "that" much of a potential risk, then only an unethical company would put out a 3D product. I personally don't believe Sony and Nintendo are unethical companies, so I'm going to believe that 3D is perfectly safe in moderation until i've seen qualified proof to suggest otherwise.

In short: relax. Nintendo is not an unsafe company by nature.

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