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Topic: Binding of Isaac still has a chance, apparently

Posts 61 to 80 of 93

SirSmugleaf

Geonjaha wrote:

OlympicCho wrote:

It amazes me that this game draws controversy and finds itself banned on various platforms, while over in the world of movies stuff like The Human Centipede exist.

Why does it surprise you that something draws controversy just because something worse exists in another medium?
Controversial issues dont get disregarded just because something more so may exist elsewhere.
Movies like The Human Centipede are banned in various countries - not widely accepted.

Yes, there is an oversensitivity in the games industry, and such games shouldn't be banned (for all ages of consumer) - but that doesnt mean that a game cant be seen as controversial.

There is an oversensitivity in the games industry because of how the media portrays gaming to the general public; as horrible, nasty pieces of work designed to rot our brains (I actually heard someone say something like that on the radio a few years ago). Of course, we know that gaming is definitely NOT like that, but because of the media, a lot of "controversial" games are seen as simply horrible.
Well, regarding the human centipede, it really is a horrible movie, but it would definitely be worse than Mortal Kombat, which was banned in Australia, whereas I have seen the human centipede at a movie rental store, which is not banned...

Currently playing: Rhythm Heaven, Minecraft (XBLA), Pokemon B/W 2, Halo 4, The Denpa Men: They Came By Wave, Fallblox, Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door (GCN)

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Geonjaha

The media's perception of gaming is horrible - we all know that, and yes, to a degree there is an oversensitivity in the games industry, but that doesnt mean that The Binding of Isaac isn't controversial. It's not a horrible game, but that doesnt mean Nintendo cant choose to not put it on their platforms. Nintendo didnt ban the game because of the media. When games hit the news it's more often than not a story about how games cause violence, or how they are acting as a platform for 'bad people' to get to children. These stories simply act as entertainment to those people with more sense - and to people that actually know what gaming is about.

Edited on by Geonjaha

Geonjaha

3DS Friend Code: 2277-6645-7215

Bankai

Why does it surprise you that something draws controversy just because something worse exists in another medium?

Because it seems that most people are anti-censorship, right up to the point when they are offended or it comes time to defend the censorship policies of their favourite company.

It surprises me how few people really do believe in freedom of expression.

Controversial issues dont get disregarded just because something more so may exist elsewhere.
Movies like The Human Centipede are banned in various countries - not widely accepted, and games like The Binding of Isaac dont need to be either.

I never said people need to "accept" The Human Centipede or The Binding of Issac, or even watch/ play either. So we agree on something.

Nintendo are free to decide what is fit for their platforms - by both game quality and content.

Legally, yes.

Just to go back to your other example - films can be banned or required to have scenes removed before they are accepted for viewing in certain countries. Just because one country accepted the film doesnt mean another one has to, or that it has a 'moral obligation' to do so - that's just ridiculous.

What's ridiculous is that people seem to think it's a good idea for corporations to have censorship powers equal to that which independent/ industry bodies do.

Even more so, actually, since anyone who dare criticise Nintendo for censoring something gets an almighty "boo, hiss" but if a censorship body bans a game for content, oh dear no.

Freedom of expression means that content should be openly available. We shouldn't have companies running around acting like the police of good taste, any more than we should be banning a movie because a child might see something their irresponsible parents object to. Sometimes material is genuinely more harmful than it is beneficial to society as a whole, and that's why we have people without commercial interests to decide whether to allow that material in or not.

Edited on by Bankai

SirSmugleaf

Geonjaha wrote:

The media's perception of gaming is horrible - we all know that, and yes, to a degree there is an oversensitivity in the games industry, but that doesnt mean that The Binding of Isaac isn't controversial. It's not a horrible game, but that doesnt mean Nintendo cant choose to not put it on their platforms. Nintendo didnt ban the game because of the media. When games hit the news it's more often than not a story about how games cause violence, or how they are acting as a platform for 'bad people' to get to children. These stories simply act as entertainment to those people with more sense - and to people that actually know what gaming is about.

I agree. I don't think The Binding of Isaac is bad but some people may find it offensive as it is a parody of sorts to the story in the bible where god told Abraham to sacrifice his son, Isaac (which I learnt about in Religious Education at school very recently). As much as I would have liked to see it on my 3DS, it was a good idea for Nintendo not to release it, as it would cause an uproar (I will stop here, because this has been explained enough). I was just saying before that the media portrays gaming as bad, but I didn't say that it influenced Nintendo's decision to decline the game being released.

Currently playing: Rhythm Heaven, Minecraft (XBLA), Pokemon B/W 2, Halo 4, The Denpa Men: They Came By Wave, Fallblox, Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door (GCN)

Will be playing soon: Paper Mario: Sticker Star, Cave Story +, Wii U: NSMBU, Nintendo Land, (And lots more!)

Adhrast

Actually, Nintendo seems to have a problem mostly with eShop games, while they don't really try to ban or block retail games. Examples are out there, Dementium: The Ward being a big one. The problem is, I believe, with visibility: a retail game may be shipped in few thousand copies worldwide, so that almost no one can see it, or try it, or be offended by it. eShop, on the other hand, makes games available to anyone, (mostly) everywhere.
That's where the problem is, they don't try to ban games from being released in the shops (which would be rather stupid, and probably impossible and/or illegal?), just on their platform.
Which is equally wrong, I'd say. I totally agree with OlympicCho on this.

Edited on by Adhrast

Adhrast

3DS Friend Code: 2938-6194-1975 | Nintendo Network ID: Adhrast

SirSmugleaf

Adhrast wrote:

Actually, Nintendo seems to have a problem mostly with eShop games, while they don't really try to ban or block retail games. Examples are out there, Dementium: The Ward being a big one. The problem is, I believe, with visibility: a retail game may be shipped in few thousand copies worldwide, so that almost no one can see it, or try it, or be offended by it. eShop, on the other hand, makes games available to anyone, (mostly) everywhere.
That's where the problem is, they don't try to ban games from being released in the shops (which would be rather stupid, and probably impossible and/or illegal?), just on their platform.
Which is equally wrong, I'd say. I totally agree with OlympicCho on this.

I totally agree. With retail games there is literally a limit to how many can be sold. With digital games, however, there is literally NO limit to how many will be sold so there is more potential for more exposure for the game, so Nintendo needs to be more careful there.

Edited on by SirSmugleaf

Currently playing: Rhythm Heaven, Minecraft (XBLA), Pokemon B/W 2, Halo 4, The Denpa Men: They Came By Wave, Fallblox, Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door (GCN)

Will be playing soon: Paper Mario: Sticker Star, Cave Story +, Wii U: NSMBU, Nintendo Land, (And lots more!)

Tsuchinoko

Just wondering, is NOA the only one that really deals with this, or is the same problem happening in Europe?

Anyway, its hard to gauge if this game would have been released in Japan, just based on the content. I think over here, its more a matter of lack of interest and cultural differences (a plot point in the story is that Issac's mother was watching "religious programing" on tv, while in Japan we don't have religious programing. Also Christianity isn't a visible entity here) that would hold this game back from being sold, not the violence or religious content.

As for violence, we don't really have anything violent stuff on the 3DS e-shop (we do have stuff with sexual content, mostly busty busty girls), but DSiWare has the Nanashi no Game spin-offs, and those are bloody.

3DS FC - 1547-6126-3842 Largate de mi casa!!
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SirSmugleaf

Tsuchinoko wrote:

Just wondering, is NOA the only one that really deals with this, or is the same problem happening in Europe?

Anyway, its hard to gauge if this game would have been released in Japan, just based on the content. I think over here, its more a matter of lack of interest and cultural differences (a plot point in the story is that Issac's mother was watching "religious programing" on tv, while in Japan we don't have religious programing. Also Christianity isn't a visible entity here) that would hold this game back from being sold, not the violence or religious content.

As for violence, we don't really have anything violent stuff on the 3DS e-shop (we do have stuff with sexual content, mostly busty busty girls), but DSiWare has the Nanashi no Game spin-offs, and those are bloody.

NOA and NOE are separate, so one could ban a game but the other sells it, it's probably down to who reviews it (as individuals) to be released, and different perceptions to what is deemed too inappropriate to release. There are a few games, for example, that are in America but not in Europe, just look at Cave Story and Sakaru Samurai: Art of the Sword.

Currently playing: Rhythm Heaven, Minecraft (XBLA), Pokemon B/W 2, Halo 4, The Denpa Men: They Came By Wave, Fallblox, Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door (GCN)

Will be playing soon: Paper Mario: Sticker Star, Cave Story +, Wii U: NSMBU, Nintendo Land, (And lots more!)

Tsuchinoko

@BayCraig100 I see. I just know of a lot of retail games that have come out recently from Japan that went to EU but not NA. I'm not sure what kind of e-shop games are out in other territories, but I have heard of just a few.

Sadly, we have yet to get ANY western developed games on our e-shop. It really does seem like the three Nintendos are very different, more so than people realize. I see a lot of games here that would never come out in other territories. I don't think even if we started getting western games on the e-shop, I doubt we'd get The Binding of Issac, but still, its a shame people in NA wouldn't get it if they wanted it.

3DS FC - 1547-6126-3842 Largate de mi casa!!
Mother 3 fan. It's an amazing game. 糸井さん、こんな素敵なゲームを作ってくれてありがとう!

Geonjaha

OlympicCho wrote:

Why does it surprise you that something draws controversy just because something worse exists in another medium?

Because it seems that most people are anti-censorship, right up to the point when they are offended or it comes time to defend the censorship policies of their favourite company.

It surprises me how few people really do believe in freedom of expression.

I wasnt talking about censorship - I was saying that something can be considered controversial whether or not something worse exists.

I believe in freedom of speech - but if a company chooses not to publish a game because it's as controversial as The Binding of Isaac then I have no problem with it. The game is still available on Steam, and even if all game publishers rejected it - it could still exist and be available openly on someones own website.

Freedom of Expression doesnt stretch so far as to overcome the rights of another individual - whether it be one person or a company. You cant force a company to publish your game just as you cant force a TV Network to give you your own show, or a newspaper to publish your article - and any world that allowed such acts would have its own problems regarding 'freedom', wouldn't it?

OlympicCho wrote:

Freedom of expression means that content should be openly available. We shouldn't have companies running around acting like the police of good taste, any more than we should be banning a movie because a child might see something their irresponsible parents object to. Sometimes material is genuinely more harmful than it is beneficial to society as a whole, and that's why we have people without commercial interests to decide whether to allow that material in or not.

The resources do not exist to make the opinions or creations of every individual openly available. Companies have their own right to 'run around' and choose what they publish - because it's their game platform, their newspaper, their TV Network - and not the only way in which one can express one's self.

If games were the only possible way that a person could get their opinion or creative ideas out there, and Nintendo were the only company that could publish games, then yes - censorship would lead to a problem with freedom of expression, but there are so many ways that you can go about showing people your game - and just because one company doesnt accept your game does not mean that your rights have been compromised.

Edited on by Geonjaha

Geonjaha

3DS Friend Code: 2277-6645-7215

SirSmugleaf

Tsuchinoko wrote:

@BayCraig100 I see. I just know of a lot of retail games that have come out recently from Japan that went to EU but not NA. I'm not sure what kind of e-shop games are out in other territories, but I have heard of just a few.

Sadly, we have yet to get ANY western developed games on our e-shop. It really does seem like the three Nintendos are very different, more so than people realize. I see a lot of games here that would never come out in other territories. I don't think even if we started getting western games on the e-shop, I doubt we'd get The Binding of Issac, but still, its a shame people in NA wouldn't get it if they wanted it.

Yeah, true...

Currently playing: Rhythm Heaven, Minecraft (XBLA), Pokemon B/W 2, Halo 4, The Denpa Men: They Came By Wave, Fallblox, Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door (GCN)

Will be playing soon: Paper Mario: Sticker Star, Cave Story +, Wii U: NSMBU, Nintendo Land, (And lots more!)

Tsuchinoko

BayCraig100 wrote:

Tsuchinoko wrote:

@BayCraig100 I see. I just know of a lot of retail games that have come out recently from Japan that went to EU but not NA. I'm not sure what kind of e-shop games are out in other territories, but I have heard of just a few.

Sadly, we have yet to get ANY western developed games on our e-shop. It really does seem like the three Nintendos are very different, more so than people realize. I see a lot of games here that would never come out in other territories. I don't think even if we started getting western games on the e-shop, I doubt we'd get The Binding of Issac, but still, its a shame people in NA wouldn't get it if they wanted it.

Yeah, true...

Ah, I'm sorry, I can't tell inflection from the internet, especially in English these days, its hard. I was being sincere.

3DS FC - 1547-6126-3842 Largate de mi casa!!
Mother 3 fan. It's an amazing game. 糸井さん、こんな素敵なゲームを作ってくれてありがとう!

SirSmugleaf

Tsuchinoko wrote:

BayCraig100 wrote:

Tsuchinoko wrote:

@BayCraig100 I see. I just know of a lot of retail games that have come out recently from Japan that went to EU but not NA. I'm not sure what kind of e-shop games are out in other territories, but I have heard of just a few.

Sadly, we have yet to get ANY western developed games on our e-shop. It really does seem like the three Nintendos are very different, more so than people realize. I see a lot of games here that would never come out in other territories. I don't think even if we started getting western games on the e-shop, I doubt we'd get The Binding of Issac, but still, its a shame people in NA wouldn't get it if they wanted it.

Yeah, true...

Ah, I'm sorry, I can't tell inflection from the internet, especially in English these days, its hard. I was being sincere.

No, I didn't mean it like that at all! I was just agreeing with you!

Currently playing: Rhythm Heaven, Minecraft (XBLA), Pokemon B/W 2, Halo 4, The Denpa Men: They Came By Wave, Fallblox, Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door (GCN)

Will be playing soon: Paper Mario: Sticker Star, Cave Story +, Wii U: NSMBU, Nintendo Land, (And lots more!)

Tsuchinoko

@BayCraig100 I see. I don't speak English most days, especially not out loud (I use more English when typing online than in conversation). Sometimes when conversations online are written like spoken conversations, I have a hard time finding the meaning.

BTW, I did just go to NewHorizons, and played a bit of The Binding of Issac. It really doesn't seem to me like the thing that would work on a Nintendo console, I'm not sure why. It feels like a free to play indie game. I'm not sure how to describe it better than that. I know that most of those games can be made without any kind of outside influences or editing from other people with regards to content or themes.

3DS FC - 1547-6126-3842 Largate de mi casa!!
Mother 3 fan. It's an amazing game. 糸井さん、こんな素敵なゲームを作ってくれてありがとう!

SirSmugleaf

Tsuchinoko wrote:

@BayCraig100 I see. I don't speak English most days, especially not out loud (I use more English when typing online than in conversation). Sometimes when conversations online are written like spoken conversations, I have a hard time finding the meaning.

BTW, I did just go to NewHorizons, and played a bit of The Binding of Issac. It really doesn't seem to me like the thing that would work on a Nintendo console, I'm not sure why. It feels like a free to play indie game. I'm not sure how to describe it better than that. I know that most of those games can be made without any kind of outside influences or editing from other people with regards to content or themes.

I played the demo as well, and it isn't really that bad (besides looking a bit bloddy) but what I think is bad is the whole context of the game; you're trying to escape from your mum who is trying to kill you because "god" told her to. That's what makes it so controversial, I believe.
BTW - Don't worry, I understand about the language difficulties. At school I have to learn two different languages (French and German), so I understand how it can be difficult sometimes!

Currently playing: Rhythm Heaven, Minecraft (XBLA), Pokemon B/W 2, Halo 4, The Denpa Men: They Came By Wave, Fallblox, Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door (GCN)

Will be playing soon: Paper Mario: Sticker Star, Cave Story +, Wii U: NSMBU, Nintendo Land, (And lots more!)

SirSmugleaf

ymmas626 wrote:

Just read the summary off of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Binding_of_Isaac_(video_game)

After reading that I can see why nintendo wouldn't want to put that on a gaming system after all. It has blasphemous content in it. I'm all for a religious game making it's way on the 3ds but not if the game goes against scriptures in the bible.

This game if released would have so much controversary it wouldn't even be remotely funny plus nintendo is in the business to STAY IN the business not go OUT of business from so many angry parents. The game would cause an up-riot for sure.

Happy Gaming! (^_^)

Yeah, that's what every one has been saying; it would just be too dangerous for Nintendo to release it.

Currently playing: Rhythm Heaven, Minecraft (XBLA), Pokemon B/W 2, Halo 4, The Denpa Men: They Came By Wave, Fallblox, Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door (GCN)

Will be playing soon: Paper Mario: Sticker Star, Cave Story +, Wii U: NSMBU, Nintendo Land, (And lots more!)

Tsuchinoko

BayCraig100 wrote:

Tsuchinoko wrote:

@BayCraig100 I see. I don't speak English most days, especially not out loud (I use more English when typing online than in conversation). Sometimes when conversations online are written like spoken conversations, I have a hard time finding the meaning.

BTW, I did just go to NewHorizons, and played a bit of The Binding of Issac. It really doesn't seem to me like the thing that would work on a Nintendo console, I'm not sure why. It feels like a free to play indie game. I'm not sure how to describe it better than that. I know that most of those games can be made without any kind of outside influences or editing from other people with regards to content or themes.

I played the demo as well, and it isn't really that bad (besides looking a bit bloddy) but what I think is bad is the whole context of the game; you're trying to escape from your mum who is trying to kill you because "god" told her to. That's what makes it so controversial, I believe.
BTW - Don't worry, I understand about the language difficulties. At school I have to learn two different languages (French and German), so I understand how it can be difficult sometimes!

For me, its losing my old language, or at least the natural American/western Canadian style of speaking it. I'm also starting French too.

Does Nintendo of Japan care about blasphemous content? I have to research that. I know the thing about "watching religious programs on tv" and getting signals from god or whatever, that would offend a huge portion of the people in the states, and Nintendo of America HAS to think about that. Not trying to be rude, but I did spend most of my upbringing in the states, and I know what conservative America is like. This game is partially satirizing conservative Christians, and it is being quite specific on that. I don't think its necessarily about censorship specifically, at least not about the topic of "non-specific religion", but this game is, without saying names (though it's hard to miss) lampooning a specific religion, and a huge portion of the people that follow it.

I think if this game was making fun of "non-specific religion", or a fake religion, or just the concept of religion, I could make a case that Nintendo is being too sensitive, but this game IS taking about a specific religion, and that is what would cause the controversy. Plus, you know, all the stuff about a little naked child running from his mother who is trying to kill him isn't helping either.

That's just my thoughts on it.

Anyway, games like Final Fantasy X and the Siren series have covered fake or non-specific religions before, to an amazing degree. I think games can cover themes on religion quite extensively. The Binding of Issac...just isn't a game that would be doing NOA any favors.

3DS FC - 1547-6126-3842 Largate de mi casa!!
Mother 3 fan. It's an amazing game. 糸井さん、こんな素敵なゲームを作ってくれてありがとう!

SirSmugleaf

That's definitely true. It's poking fun at Christianity and it definitely will offend people, and some people can get very sensitive and offended these days. Nintendo is very wise not to release it, as much as I would love for it to be on here, as I think it would be quite fun. Anyway, the creator, Edmund McMillen, has been known for releasing quite controversial games.

Edited on by SirSmugleaf

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KAHN

way i see it, if you don't want little babies playing the game, rate it "M".i know if i was a little kid, playing a game like this would give me nightmares, so i'd steer clear even if it wasn't "M". even if i did want to play it as a kid, there'd be no way my parents would get me this! so i think it's clear that this game is aimed towards adults. being an adult, it'd be totally OK if i got it! but i've seen too many kids with a 3DS, so it's also clear that 3DS is aimed more towards kids, not adults. so out of the entire child audience, i dont know a single parent that would get their child this. while there are some adults that would get this for themselves, there's no way there'd be enough profits. but whatever, if they still want to make this game on 3DS, what do i care? im still going to get it anyways! that is, if they dont censor all the "violence"... gotta hate censorship

Edited on by KAHN

KAHN

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Birdman

@0LD_SK0OL_PUNK - The problem with your idea is that you're assuming parents actually check game's ratings and see why they're rated what they are. Unfortunately, many parents, even when it would only take 30 seconds to go to the ESRB's site or just about any other gaming site on their phone to see why a game got an M rating, just don't do that. They have the ignorant misconception that games haven't evolved to the point that they can tackle radical ideas and feature content like tBoI, so they don't think twice about giving children games like GTA or CoD until the damage (if games like those can cause damage) is done. If everyone was responsible, didn't jump to conclusions about controversial content in artistic mediums like video games, knew when to let things go, and didn't feel the need to crusade against that which they feel is inappropriate, tBoI would be on every console by now. But, as it stands, companies need to make decisions about whether or not to release games like tBoI on their systems to protect their reputation consumers have about them to get their money.

Exactly.
My Birdloggery

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