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Topic: 3DSware Size limit

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gatygun

41. Posted:

metakirbyknight wrote:

gatygun wrote:

@metakirbyknight

The ds is basically a n64+. While the largest n64 game cartidge size = 32mb.
The DS games atm are already used at 256mb kind of data level ( or even higher ). Which means a massive ammount of extra data, while the system is basically the same.

If you take the 3DS, its pretty much comparable towards a xbox ++. there are already 4-5gb games if not higher actually games for that ) therefor a 8gb ( or even higher mediums ) game as last gen for a nintendo 3DS isn't that abnormal. specially when mediums start to jump to higher standards every year.

While a 32gb sd card was 6 years ago not even heart off. The 32gb is nothing more then a standard already at this date for most people.

About the iphone data i'm really not that interested in those data sizes. The games overall are simple not up to par of that from nintendo / playstation or 3th party company's

100-200mb is great for the start. But it will already be a huge problem once people start to use 3D movie trailers between the games. Such as a demo from kingdom hearts. They need to compress the quality of the video big time and sound in order to reach a 100/200mb kind of demo solution really. I wouldn't be suprised if already a starting trailer ends up taking 100mb.

The 3DS is nowhere near the XBox. It may comparable to the Gamcube, however.

You have to understand that physical games make Nintendo more profit. The larger games will be on cartridges. The smaller ones will be on 3DSWare.

Do you honestly believe that files are that large. I have 9.8 hours of music. It weighs in at 798.8MB. Stuff doesn't use that much space. If the largest DS games are 256MB, then why would Nintendo want to let someone release something like Dragon Quest IX on 3DSWare when a release on a physical cartridge would mean more profit?

8GB games will probably happen. But not on 3DSWare. I have a 15Mbps connection at my house. It really comes out to about 3Mbps. So, 8GB is 64Gb. 64Gb is 65536Mb. That would take 21845 seconds or 364 minutes or 6 hours. I will not wait that long for a download game. We don't want to wait 6 hours. For games like that, I want to go to the store and walk out with it and be done. I'm not saying it won't happen, but we're not ready. I don't think we'll be ready during the 3DS's reign as the the top Nintendo handheld.

I wanted to make clear ( probably you misunderstood me because of my crappy english ) that cartidges will go up towards 8gb, i wasn't talking about the 3dsshovelware stuff.

The 3ds = xbox++. not a gamecube. Check already the specs of the 3DS ( rumored ) and the games available.
You praise the gamecube to much really. I yet to see anything equal to resident evil revelation ( on the gamecube ).

ps nintendo did announced that a 8gb cartridge is the limit, just like i thought. and said.

Edited on by gatygun

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gatygun

42. Posted:

Oregano wrote:

gatygun wrote:

got some info site where, it says that it can download while playing games?

I do agree if you mean that it can download when its in his docking station doing nothing els but downloading. I hardly think its able to multitask tho.

Still didn't saw any multitasking here really, simple making dumps and start another application up.

They haven't shown downloading at all but they clearly shown multitasking in the features trailer... it was one of the key things. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf34VuMLomg

At the end, it doesn't matter. Now with the 8gb cartridge statement of nintendo, they are clearly looking more forward then 1/2 year. Therefor the limit of 3ds shovelware isn't going to be a big issue i quess for developers.

Edited on by gatygun

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Oregano

43. Posted:

Alright then in the SSIV3D trailer it shows you can be playing single player and get interrupted by other people for multiplayer, which means it can definitely multitask in some form. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGslprZGEGo

gatygun wrote:

At the end, it doesn't matter. Now with the 8gb cartridge statement of nintendo, they are clearly looking more forward then 1/2 year. Therefor the limit of 3ds shovelware isn't going to be a big issue i quess for developers.

Wat?

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Turnip

44. Posted:

wait. are you talking about how much memory it will have? who cares? you can buy a high memory SD card for 6 dollars.

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metakirbyknight

45. Posted:

If the current 3DS cartridges go up to 8GB (and will probably go up in the future), that would be comparable to the Wii. Wii games can be up to 8.4GB (dual-layer). The WiiWare limit is around 40MB. The Wii games on disc can be up to 215 times larger than WiiWare games. So, if we follow Nintendo's record with the Wii, the limit would be around 38MB. But, I think with the 3DS Nintendo wants to change their reputation for online services, so maybe double. Perhaps 76MB? I'm going to go back on my previous estimate and go with 38-76MB.

So, let's look at the iOS games I posted previously. Most of what I posted are fairly popular and probably contribute to Nintendo's falling market share. In a worse-case senario, 57% of games fit. In a best-case senario, 76% of games fit. Most of what doesn't fit are games Nintendo would definitely want on a physical cartridge.

Oregano wrote:

Even without spec sheets it's simple to say the 3DS is similar to the Xbox in power for very simple reasons, it has all of the shader capabilities of current gen systems but with lower polygon counts and lower resolution textures. That describes both the Xbox and 3DS but can not possibly describe the Dreamcast, PSP, PS2, Gamecube or Wii.

Specsheets also mean very little in real terms as on paper the PS2 could push more polygons than the Gamecube but the highest polygon count on a last gen game was the Gamecube, and it had a lot more effects going on.

Anyway, more on topic, Macronix(who is responsible for the DS and 3DS game cards) has apparently revealed that 3DS game cards can go up to 8GB. Here's the link: http://www.gamrade.com/article-425-1.html

Someone also mentioned something about the minimum being 1GB but I have no idea due to language. If that is the case then the download limit could be 1GB or slightly lower so there's a clear barrier between download and retail... although I know a 1GB card wouldn't necessarily mean 1GB of data.

Fair enough.

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Oregano

46. Posted:

@metalkirbyknight: That's also an interesting theory but I think the limit would be higher than the Wiis simply because the 3DS has been built in mind with having much more memory available. From what Iwata has said, although it may be misinterpreted, the 3DS will actually load data straight from SD whereas the Wii has to cache it which means on the Wii you can't load a file which exceeds the available memory on the system but on the 3DS you could.

I think the most promising thing is the SpotPass feature though, it's an integral feature and selling point and is all about the ability to download data. The question is, how big can these updates be? Nintendo has been taking feedback from Capcom(Ono said they asked for feedback on the d-pad, or he gave them feedback anyway:P) and we know Capcom loves DLC.

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Hardy83

47. Posted:

My guess...Mmmmm

Not enough, but big enough that'll fill the main memory too quickly and launching from the SD card won't end up being a feature for the 3DS.

Hardy83

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Unca_Lz

48. Posted:

Hardy83 wrote:

My guess...Mmmmm

Not enough, but big enough that'll fill the main memory too quickly and launching from the SD card won't end up being a feature for the 3DS.

Your guess would be wrong since they announced that the 3DS could launch games from the SD card

Edited on by Unca_Lz

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salty1264

49. Posted:

lol look at gessus from firrst page but ts 8 gb

have a wii,dsi, gba and gcn but getting a 3ds and ps3. my fave game of alltime for all systems is black ops on wii

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metakirbyknight

50. Posted:

Oregano wrote:

@metalkirbyknight: That's also an interesting theory but I think the limit would be higher than the Wiis simply because the 3DS has been built in mind with having much more memory available. From what Iwata has said, although it may be misinterpreted, the 3DS will actually load data straight from SD whereas the Wii has to cache it which means on the Wii you can't load a file which exceeds the available memory on the system but on the 3DS you could.

I think the most promising thing is the SpotPass feature though, it's an integral feature and selling point and is all about the ability to download data. The question is, how big can these updates be? Nintendo has been taking feedback from Capcom(Ono said they asked for feedback on the d-pad, or he gave them feedback anyway:P) and we know Capcom loves DLC.

Even if it does load directly from SD, that brings up a whole other group of problems. With the Wii, it caches the game, so it loads off of the super-fast NAND. SD cards aren't that fast.
I know that everybody here hates flashcarts. I have one and use it, legally of course. I dump all of my own games. When you first start Phantom Hourglass, after Niko tells you the story, there's the cutscene with Zelda falling down this purplish vortex of some sort. If your SD card isn't fast enough, the DS will choke on it. It freezes, plays a little bit, and freezes again. And it goes on and on. I have a really fast card, but most people don't. If you buy the $20 16GB card from WalMart, you'll get sluggish performance. If we start to load huge games off of our cheap SD cards, we'll experience the same problems flashcart users do.

I'd like to think that SpotPass downloads could be huge. But whatever limit imposes on 3DSWare will probably be much higher than the DLC limit.
If you look at WarioWare D.I.Y., it's on a 128MB cartridge. The actual game weighs in at about 30MB (if memory serves). The rest is for your levels and stuff. Which reminds me, I should get around to playing that. I bought on sale at GameStop last weekend.

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Oregano

51. Posted:

Hardy83 wrote:

My guess...Mmmmm

Not enough, but big enough that'll fill the main memory too quickly and launching from the SD card won't end up being a feature for the 3DS.

If you're all you're going to do is be insufferable then go do that some place else.Especially considering you've shown you don't know what you're talking about.

@metakirbyknight: It's possible that they've worked with their partners(Macronix, ARM and DMP) to find a solution to that. Of course it could also be that people with SD cards not optimised for it would just have to put up with it. SanDisk will likely be the best, as they're the one who manufactures the Wii SD cards?

I'm not sure what the limits are on the XBL DLC but DLC is a lot, lot smaller than download games because a lot of the assets are already on the disc/gamecard. A lot of games seem to be using it though.

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metakirbyknight

52. Posted:

Oregano wrote:

@metakirbyknight: It's possible that they've worked with their partners(Macronix, ARM and DMP) to find a solution to that. Of course it could also be that people with SD cards not optimised for it would just have to put up with it. SanDisk will likely be the best, as they're the one who manufactures the Wii SD cards?

SanDisk is the gold standard, but even some of their cards aren't adequate. I just checked on a cheap SanDisk 2GB card, and the issue appeared.

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Oregano

53. Posted:

Hmm, that's interesting and it will be interesting how they approach that. May be it will be cached but in a weird, hidden way. The rumoured internal storage for the 3DS is 1.5GB but 1.5GB storage isn't made so it would most likely be 2GB. Is it possible that the 0.5GB(or some of it) is reserved for caching?

That would give the illusion of direct loading and if true(which is really far fetched, to be honest) would give an indication of the size limit!

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metakirbyknight

54. Posted:

Oregano wrote:

Hmm, that's interesting and it will be interesting how they approach that. May be it will be cached but in a weird, hidden way. The rumoured internal storage for the 3DS is 1.5GB but 1.5GB storage isn't made so it would most likely be 2GB. Is it possible that the 0.5GB(or some of it) is reserved for caching?

That would give the illusion of direct loading and if true(which is really far fetched, to be honest) would give an indication of the size limit!

What you're saying is possible, but not probable. But, I'd love it to be true.

While it's true that they don't make single 1.5GB chips, they do make 1GB and 0.5GB chips. There could be 2 NAND chips in the 3DS. Like the HTC Hero has 384MB of RAM. 256+128=384.

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Oregano

55. Posted:

metakirbyknight wrote:

What you're saying is possible, but not probable. But, I'd love it to be true.

While it's true that they don't make single 1.5GB chips, they do make 1GB and 0.5GB chips. There could be 2 NAND chips in the 3DS. Like the HTC Hero has 384MB of RAM. 256+128=384.

Yes that would also be a good possibility, doesn't the Wii have two RAM chips? I personally think that one chip would be more likely due to space concerns though, the 3DS will have a lot of stuff taking up space: Two CPUs, GPU, RAM, Flash Memory, Accelerometer, Gyro, the controls, the bottom screen, the stylus, the SD card, the gamecard, the battery.

Still it's very improbable, especially when we consider all the nitty gritty of the 3DS' internals is based on rumour and speculation. We're not even sure what the Pica is capable of because of the fact it's improved a lot over the last four years from the little data we do have and the 3DS is likely using a completely new version(3DSquare, a 3D tool for the GPU, was only added this year).

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GameInfinite

56. Posted:

I'm hope that they will have the SD Card Menu just like the Wii.

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metakirbyknight

57. Posted:

Oregano wrote:

metakirbyknight wrote:

What you're saying is possible, but not probable. But, I'd love it to be true.

While it's true that they don't make single 1.5GB chips, they do make 1GB and 0.5GB chips. There could be 2 NAND chips in the 3DS. Like the HTC Hero has 384MB of RAM. 256+128=384.

Yes that would also be a good possibility, doesn't the Wii have two RAM chips? I personally think that one chip would be more likely due to space concerns though, the 3DS will have a lot of stuff taking up space: Two CPUs, GPU, RAM, Flash Memory, Accelerometer, Gyro, the controls, the bottom screen, the stylus, the SD card, the gamecard, the battery.

Still it's very improbable, especially when we consider all the nitty gritty of the 3DS' internals is based on rumour and speculation. We're not even sure what the Pica is capable of because of the fact it's improved a lot over the last four years from the little data we do have and the 3DS is likely using a completely new version(3DSquare, a 3D tool for the GPU, was only added this year).

I don't really think space is of much concern to Ninty. * compares DSi to iPod touch and crys *

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Oregano

58. Posted:

metakirbyknight wrote:

I don't really think space is of much concern to Ninty. * compares DSi to iPod touch and crys *

The specs are absolutely important but there's different priorities, Nintendo likes super efficient designs above all else and when it comes to the design of games everything is seamless. The 3DS seems to be close to the Gamecube in design philosophy with them trying to get as much power as possible as easily as possible. Most third parties seem to be happy with the specs though and they obviously know more than us!( and a lot are using PS3/360 assets!)

Hmm that's an interesting question when it comes to downloads.... Nintendo has clearly prioritised the ability to use HD assets for third parties and in some cases the developers are managing straight ports so I wonder if they're try to prioritise ease of porting downloadable titles too? I'm not too sure about that one but it could certainly be interesting.

EDIT: Totally misread your post(stupidly) but I think that's still a good point I mentioned. To actually answer what you said, space is obviously important, maybe not as much as for a phone(and especially an Apple one) but the devices still have to be ergonomic and Nintendo also puts sturdiness as a high priority because they have to be able to take punishment from kids. They've also got to make sure the 3DS doesn't melt!:P

Edited on by Oregano

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metakirbyknight

59. Posted:

Oregano wrote:

metakirbyknight wrote:

I don't really think space is of much concern to Ninty. * compares DSi to iPod touch and crys *

The specs are absolutely important but there's different priorities, Nintendo likes super efficient designs above all else and when it comes to the design of games everything is seamless. The 3DS seems to be close to the Gamecube in design philosophy with them trying to get as much power as possible as easily as possible. Most third parties seem to be happy with the specs though and they obviously know more than us!( and a lot are using PS3/360 assets!)

Hmm that's an interesting question when it comes to downloads.... Nintendo has clearly prioritised the ability to use HD assets for third parties and in some cases the developers are managing straight ports so I wonder if they're try to prioritise ease of porting downloadable titles too? I'm not too sure about that one but it could certainly be interesting.

EDIT: Totally misread your post(stupidly) but I think that's still a good point I mentioned.

LOL.

I totally agree with you. Nintendo wants 3DS games to look great, just like they wanted DS games to look great. But go look at DSiWare and WiiWare, how many look as good as retail games? It's because of the size limit and Ninty's non-caring. Not saying I like it, but it's the way it is.

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Oregano

60. Posted:

metakirbyknight wrote:

I totally agree with you. Nintendo wants 3DS games to look great, just like they wanted DS games to look great. But go look at DSiWare and WiiWare, how many look as good as retail games? It's because of the size limit and Ninty's non-caring. Not saying I like it, but it's the way it is.

That's not true at all, some Wiiware games put retail Wii games to shame(Jett Rocket, Lost Winds) and DSiware games are actually better looking on average due to the fact that they have more RAM and CPU power to work with. For the most simple example the monster models in Dragon Quest Wars are of higher quality than in DQIX or DQM: Joker and DQ Wars was developed by Nintendo. Considering the amount of DSiware games Nintendo has put out it's really unfair to say they don't care because

Size limit doesn't chage how the games can look, but fundamentally what type of games they can be. Wiiware and DSiware are supposed to be bite-sized games and also predominately indie games(much more so than on PSN and XBL, but not as much XBLIG and the App Store). But that's not important now, what's important now is what strategy Nintendo take with the 3DS.

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