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Topic: 3DSware Size limit

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Phobos

21. Posted:

Remember that the 3DS has a lot more storage capacities and features built in. We're revamping and upgrading with this thing. Nonetheless, I'm going with 256MB bang-splat. We also have SD card support, so that could be a good sign.

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HolyMackerel

22. Posted:

If I had to guess, I'd say 512MB (0.5GB) or 1024MB (1GB) maximum. Nintendo should have recognised by now that filesize limitations are too much of a restriction for quality games these days. Those sizes are large enough that they should not be a barrier for pretty much any downloadable game. They are also reasonable sizes for downloadable titles considering the common internet connection speeds these days.

Not many 3DSWare games would be as large as 1GB or even 512MB, but it's best to overestimate than underestimate. Look at what happened with Super Meat Boy. And 3DSWare games will definitely be multiples larger in file size than DSiWare games.

Edited on by HolyMackerel

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GameInfinite

23. Posted:

HolyMackerel wrote:

gatygun wrote:

3DS = used by 7-16 year kids ( 7 because of eye injury thingy )
while apple iphone = overall used by 16+ people

lol what. I'd like to see where you found out that ownership of the 3DS is restricted to people aged 16 and under. I guess I won't be able to buy one then. I'm above the age limit.

Just FYI most of your post is ignorant of the technology and business behind the 3DS, as are everyone else's - mine included. Too many details about the system are unconfirmed. We don't know if the 3DS will be able to download in the background. It probably will, seeing how Nintendo is pushing multitasking-reliant technology like the new Home menu and StreetPass. But this all just speculation.

I'm pretty sure Nintendo will have learned from their past mistakes. They've seen the potential of digital game stores through the success of Apple's store, XBLA, PSN and Steam. The 3DSWare service should either have no size limit or a limit high enough that it doesn't matter.

Talking specific size numbers like 256MB or whatever is arbitrary and fruitless.

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Oregano

24. Posted:

I think 1GB would possibly be too high a limit because the games will start at a max of 2GB and at that point I think Nintendo(as well as most publishers, but not necessarily developers) would prefer a retail release. However one factor I forgot is other media, most importantly movies.... if movies(and TV shows) are available for download the limit could be that high. Videos takes up a lot of space.

It could cause issues but a different approach is an informal filesize limit where it can be negotiated if they go over the limit... that would prevent Super Meat Boy style problems but still encourage conscientious design.... but accusations of favouritism might be something they want to avoid.

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GameInfinite

25. Posted:

O - O

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gatygun

26. Posted:

HolyMackerel wrote:

gatygun wrote:

3DS = used by 7-16 year kids ( 7 because of eye injury thingy )
while apple iphone = overall used by 16+ people

lol what. I'd like to see where you found out that ownership of the 3DS is restricted to people aged 16 and under. I guess I won't be able to buy one then. I'm above the age limit.

Just FYI most of your post is ignorant of the technology and business behind the 3DS, as are everyone else's - mine included. Too many details about the system are unconfirmed. We don't know if the 3DS will be able to download in the background. It probably will, seeing how Nintendo is pushing multitasking-reliant technology like the new Home menu and StreetPass. But this all just speculation.

I'm pretty sure Nintendo will have learned from their past mistakes. They've seen the potential of digital game stores through the success of Apple's store, XBLA, PSN and Steam. The 3DSWare service should either have no size limit or a limit high enough that it doesn't matter.

Talking specific size numbers like 256MB or whatever is arbitrary and fruitless.

Common, i was talking about it on a way, that there biggest market atm is probably on that age. This could be completely different tho with the 3DS, because of its higher starting price.

Its not like that i ment that a 17+ year old isn't going to have one. ofcourse it is.

I do agree with the fact that nobody has a clue atm, where stuff goes towards. But from what they showed so far. it's not really mutitasking.

Unless you got some link to some info that i didn't saw yet.

Edited on by gatygun

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gatygun

27. Posted:

Oregano wrote:

They could increase it later on yes but I definitely don't think they'll even consider the fact SD cards can go up to a crazy high amount because it's just not worth assuming that they will be available to most people. The safest assumption is that most people will stick to the included card.

The first limit might not apply though, one of the major selling points of the 3DS which was shown in its feature trailer is the fact that it can multitask and they've also advertised the fact that it can download passively. The second limit doesn't apply to the DSi but it still has a limit(one smaller than the Wii even).

The iphone is an important comparison because it's a competitor for the download sevice and also a source of games. For one Gameloft will want to port all of their games to the 3DS so ideally you'd want a limit that is big enough to accommodate all those games. The easier it is to fit games in=more games=more money. Nintendo will be considering that.

got some info site where, it says that it can download while playing games?

I do agree if you mean that it can download when its in his docking station doing nothing els but downloading. I hardly think its able to multitask tho.

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gatygun

28. Posted:

Oregano wrote:

I think 1GB would possibly be too high a limit because the games will start at a max of 2GB and at that point I think Nintendo(as well as most publishers, but not necessarily developers) would prefer a retail release. However one factor I forgot is other media, most importantly movies.... if movies(and TV shows) are available for download the limit could be that high. Videos takes up a lot of space.
It could cause issues but a different approach is an informal filesize limit where it can be negotiated if they go over the limit... that would prevent Super Meat Boy style problems but still encourage conscientious design.... but accusations of favouritism might be something they want to avoid.

atm i agree, but in the future i disagree. I really do see 8gb cartridges being used for 6gb games in 3-4 years from now.
The 1 gb 3dsware is that serieusly needed.

@metakirby knight

The ds is basically a n64+. While the largest n64 game cartidge size = 32mb.
The DS games atm are already used at 256mb kind of data level ( or even higher ). Which means a massive ammount of extra data, while the system is basically the same.

If you take the 3DS, its pretty much comparable towards a xbox ++. there are already 4-5gb games if not higher actually games for that ) therefor a 8gb ( or even higher mediums ) game as last gen for a nintendo 3DS isn't that abnormal. specially when mediums start to jump to higher standards every year.

While a 32gb sd card was 6 years ago not even heart off. The 32gb is nothing more then a standard already at this date for most people.

About the iphone data i'm really not that interested in those data sizes. The games overall are simple not up to par of that from nintendo / playstation or 3th party company's

100-200mb is great for the start. But it will already be a huge problem once people start to use 3D movie trailers between the games. Such as a demo from kingdom hearts. They need to compress the quality of the video big time and sound in order to reach a 100/200mb kind of demo solution really. I wouldn't be suprised if already a starting trailer ends up taking 100mb.

Edited on by gatygun

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Oregano

29. Posted:

gatygun wrote:

got some info site where, it says that it can download while playing games?

I do agree if you mean that it can download when its in his docking station doing nothing els but downloading. I hardly think its able to multitask tho.

They haven't shown downloading at all but they clearly shown multitasking in the features trailer... it was one of the key things. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf34VuMLomg

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Phobos

30. Posted:

HolyMackerel wrote:

If I had to guess, I'd say 512MB (0.5GB) or 1024MB (1GB) maximum. Nintendo should have recognised by now that filesize limitations are too much of a restriction for quality games these days. Those sizes are large enough that they should not be a barrier for pretty much any downloadable game. They are also reasonable sizes for downloadable titles considering the common internet connection speeds these days.

Not many 3DSWare games would be as large as 1GB or even 512MB, but it's best to overestimate than underestimate. Look at what happened with Super Meat Boy. And 3DSWare games will definitely be multiples larger in file size than DSiWare games.

Yikes mate, slow down. 1GB? Think of the time! I don't think any game would actually surpass 500MB, and even that's an overestimate. If it does, it's going to be rarely, I can assure you.

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CanisWolfred

31. Posted:

GameLord08 wrote:

HolyMackerel wrote:

If I had to guess, I'd say 512MB (0.5GB) or 1024MB (1GB) maximum. Nintendo should have recognised by now that filesize limitations are too much of a restriction for quality games these days. Those sizes are large enough that they should not be a barrier for pretty much any downloadable game. They are also reasonable sizes for downloadable titles considering the common internet connection speeds these days.

Not many 3DSWare games would be as large as 1GB or even 512MB, but it's best to overestimate than underestimate. Look at what happened with Super Meat Boy. And 3DSWare games will definitely be multiples larger in file size than DSiWare games.

Yikes mate, slow down. 1GB? Think of the time! I don't think any game would actually surpass 500MB, and even that's an overestimate. If it does, it's going to be rarely, I can assure you.

1 gig is excessive, but quite a few PSP games are at or above that size. Sure it took a while, but it was worth it. Like HM said, it's better to Overestimate, since it gives the developers plenty of room to work with.

Edited on by CanisWolfred

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Oregano

32. Posted:

GameLord08 wrote:

Yikes mate, slow down. 1GB? Think of the time! I don't think any game would actually surpass 500MB, and even that's an overestimate. If it does, it's going to be rarely, I can assure you.

There's speculation that the charging dock will have some network boosting stuff(I don't know how that'd work) and because of spotpass it can do it all on its own so time probably wouldn't be an issue. That comes down to whether the service will be for bite-sized games only or also have some games on demand style games.

If they're making movies available for download then there's going to be big files being transferred anyway.

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metakirbyknight

33. Posted:

gatygun wrote:

@metakirbyknight

The ds is basically a n64+. While the largest n64 game cartidge size = 32mb.
The DS games atm are already used at 256mb kind of data level ( or even higher ). Which means a massive ammount of extra data, while the system is basically the same.

If you take the 3DS, its pretty much comparable towards a xbox ++. there are already 4-5gb games if not higher actually games for that ) therefor a 8gb ( or even higher mediums ) game as last gen for a nintendo 3DS isn't that abnormal. specially when mediums start to jump to higher standards every year.

While a 32gb sd card was 6 years ago not even heart off. The 32gb is nothing more then a standard already at this date for most people.

About the iphone data i'm really not that interested in those data sizes. The games overall are simple not up to par of that from nintendo / playstation or 3th party company's

100-200mb is great for the start. But it will already be a huge problem once people start to use 3D movie trailers between the games. Such as a demo from kingdom hearts. They need to compress the quality of the video big time and sound in order to reach a 100/200mb kind of demo solution really. I wouldn't be suprised if already a starting trailer ends up taking 100mb.

The 3DS is nowhere near the XBox. It may comparable to the Gamcube, however.

You have to understand that physical games make Nintendo more profit. The larger games will be on cartridges. The smaller ones will be on 3DSWare.

Do you honestly believe that files are that large. I have 9.8 hours of music. It weighs in at 798.8MB. Stuff doesn't use that much space. If the largest DS games are 256MB, then why would Nintendo want to let someone release something like Dragon Quest IX on 3DSWare when a release on a physical cartridge would mean more profit?

8GB games will probably happen. But not on 3DSWare. I have a 15Mbps connection at my house. It really comes out to about 3Mbps. So, 8GB is 64Gb. 64Gb is 65536Mb. That would take 21845 seconds or 364 minutes or 6 hours. I will not wait that long for a download game. We don't want to wait 6 hours. For games like that, I want to go to the store and walk out with it and be done. I'm not saying it won't happen, but we're not ready. I don't think we'll be ready during the 3DS's reign as the the top Nintendo handheld.

Edited on by metakirbyknight

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HolyMackerel

34. Posted:

Mickeymac wrote:

GameLord08 wrote:

HolyMackerel wrote:

If I had to guess, I'd say 512MB (0.5GB) or 1024MB (1GB) maximum. Nintendo should have recognised by now that filesize limitations are too much of a restriction for quality games these days. Those sizes are large enough that they should not be a barrier for pretty much any downloadable game. They are also reasonable sizes for downloadable titles considering the common internet connection speeds these days.

Not many 3DSWare games would be as large as 1GB or even 512MB, but it's best to overestimate than underestimate. Look at what happened with Super Meat Boy. And 3DSWare games will definitely be multiples larger in file size than DSiWare games.

Yikes mate, slow down. 1GB? Think of the time! I don't think any game would actually surpass 500MB, and even that's an overestimate. If it does, it's going to be rarely, I can assure you.

1 gig is excessive, but quite a few PSP games are at or above that size. Sure it took a while, but it was worth it. Like HM said, it's better to Overestimate, since it gives the developers plenty of room to work with.

Yep. 1GB would (hopefully) be virtually unreachable for 3DSWare titles and therefore will not restrict the types of games available on the service at all. In other words, with an extremely high limit you can expect true quality games rather than the smattering of little time wasters available on DSiWare.

And assuming the 3DS can multitask (i.e. download while doing other things like playing games) then the download time isn't an issue.

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GameInfinite

35. Posted:

Downloading Games When Playing Games! Thanks HM.

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shadowAOD

36. Posted:

I think 250mb should be fair enough

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GameInfinite

37. Posted:

350mb can be possible

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Oregano

38. Posted:

metakirbyknight wrote:

The 3DS is nowhere near the XBox. It may comparable to the Gamcube, however.

The 3DS is closest to the OG Xbox when it comes to its capabilities. Also the Gamecube was about on par with the Xbox, it didn't have as many shader capabilities but it could push a lot more stuff on screen.

@HolyMac: I think it's too hard to say whether games would approach the limit because one of the most obvious things that would happen is games that were intended to be retail titles(because 1GB is half the retail limit) would instead be put on the download store. That could be both good and bad, one of the main issues with the PS3 and 360 market right now is the lack of a middle ground, the B tier has completely collapsed with the successes being either downloads or AAA. By all accounts Nintendo is against that(mainly because Nintendo does a lot of B tier releases) so they'd probably want to avoid that. There is also the big issue of their cut of the revenue, if the game is over 500MBs it's arguably big enough for a full retail release and Nintendo would get a bigger cut of the revenue that way, Although that too depends on their strategy for the store and what price range they'll go for.

Possibly they should go with a similar strategy that they use for their gamecards, start low but increase over time when developers need more space. One thing I forgot to mention though is DLC! From the sounds of the spotpass stuff there will be more DLC stuff but will that count towards the size limit or be outside of it? That could actually be a reason they go for a bigger size limit.

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metakirbyknight

39. Posted:

Oregano wrote:

metakirbyknight wrote:

The 3DS is nowhere near the XBox. It may comparable to the Gamcube, however.

The 3DS is closest to the OG Xbox when it comes to its capabilities. Also the Gamecube was about on par with the Xbox, it didn't have as many shader capabilities but it could push a lot more stuff on screen.

Everybody says that, but until I see a spec sheet, the 3DS isn't as powerful as anything. But, at least to me, it looks to be on par with the Gamecube.

Even then, the XBox was limited to DVDs, which I think are 4.7GB or so.

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Oregano

40. Posted:

Even without spec sheets it's simple to say the 3DS is similar to the Xbox in power for very simple reasons, it has all of the shader capabilities of current gen systems but with lower polygon counts and lower resolution textures. That describes both the Xbox and 3DS but can not possibly describe the Dreamcast, PSP, PS2, Gamecube or Wii.

Specsheets also mean very little in real terms as on paper the PS2 could push more polygons than the Gamecube but the highest polygon count on a last gen game was the Gamecube, and it had a lot more effects going on.

Anyway, more on topic, Macronix(who is responsible for the DS and 3DS game cards) has apparently revealed that 3DS game cards can go up to 8GB. Here's the link: http://www.gamrade.com/article-425-1.html

Someone also mentioned something about the minimum being 1GB but I have no idea due to language. If that is the case then the download limit could be 1GB or slightly lower so there's a clear barrier between download and retail... although I know a 1GB card wouldn't necessarily mean 1GB of data.

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