That March release date would be great. 4 days before my birthday!
I think they should release it earlier. My birthday is Feb. 28.
But guys, really, VGChartz.
Holy crap, thats 2 days after my Birthday....Trust me it would be easier if it was later, all I have to do is ask my family & friends to just give money to contribute to a Gamestop giftcard.
Ninty sold 3 million DSi's in Japan as of Aug. 2009 according to Kotaku. At $40 profit for machine that's $120 million. In less than a year the DSi in Japan alone racked up enough to cover 1/5th of Ninty's yearly R&D budget. Now, of course there's other places the money needs to go as well, but I'd say they're doing fine with hardware profits.
Well, sure, considering the other console manufactures make little or no money from the hardware, and very much approach that side of the business as a loss leading exercise.
Still doesn’t mean Nintendo counts on hardware sales to survive
I agree that they are making more profits on games. Ninty's games (and to a lesser amount, 3rd party licenses) are the obvious major profit drivers, just like with any other game company. How long have MKDS and NSMB been out now? They still sell at full price. There's no doubt that games are where the most money is. That doesn't mean they're not making Uncle Scrooge swimming pool sized piles of money off the hardware too.
$120 million for a multinational corporation is pitiful. It would barely cover the cost of Nintendo’s worldwide staff.
Also, Nintendo does get a cut from downloadable sales I believe. Devs don't get ANY money if WW games don't meet a certain sales target. That may have changed, but they are certainly getting money from downloadable game sales beyond a flat licensing fee. It goes without saying though that without retailers, shipping, and manufacturers to pay, the proportion of money that goes straight into both Ninty's and the devs pocket is MUCH higher than they would be with physical carts.
That’s what I meant by licensing costs – Nintendo profits from sales up to a threshold that is set down prior to release, and then the developer/ publisher gains from what’s left.
If the DSi required the same amount of R&D as the 3DS, it stands to reason that they should cost similarly (ignoring the factor of demand). By your numbers, they could easily sell it for around $180 and not be losing money. If it sells at $200, it'll be because they think there's enough demand, not because they can't comfortably supply it for cheaper.
Well, not really. Initially the hardware will need to be more expensive because Nintendo will not be making as much from licensing. Licensing for a console that is in 100 million hands is going to be more expensive than licensing for a console that will be expected to sell a few million in its first weeks.
There’s also a marketing side to setting the price. If a console, at launch, is priced too cheaply, than many consumers will ignore it for not being premium. Part of the reason Apple sells so well, despite being more expensive, is because it has a premium reputation. Nintendo’s not going to want to cheapen the 3DS’ shelf appeal by pricing it at the same cost the DSi is currently selling for.
The DSi, given how little of an upgrade it actually is (better Wifi capabilities, bigger screen, and crappy camera) is not that much of an upgrade from a DS Lite which is $150. The profit margin on the DSi is surely very comfortable for Nintendo. They could release a device significantly better for the same price and still turn a profit. Once it releases, there'll surely be a large price drop for the DSi as well. I think it could easily be released for $180, but given that they did fairly well selling it for $180, they very well could be emboldened to go with a higher price.
I agree with you on the crappy camera. Nintendo needs to do better on the camera part.
If Nintendo goes for 200$ it will be there first time selling a handheld at that price, and it would beat Sony with there PSPGo system selling at 250$ plus tax and then the only diffrence between the PSPGo and PSP is no UMD and a different look and more space for downloading. Nintendo has the upper hand in all aspects. I know Nintendo would not price the 3DS at 250$ there competing with Sony no way Nintendo would price it at 250$.
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So many Awesome video games coming out this year! So many games so little money! Crap!
Nintendo's never gone for the "premium" reputation, especially with portables. They're strategy has been to give consumers a great product at a reasonable cost. Gameboy certainly wasn't the "premium" option amongst handhelds at the time, but it did exceptionally well. While the Wii has shown that perhaps cheaper yet widely adopted consoles aren't the best way to get profits off of 3rd party licenses, given how well the DS is doing, I'd say it's still a viable model for portables.
Apple (and with portables, to a lesser extent, Sony) is a premium product. I'd put money on the $230 8GB iTouch being better than the 3DS in every single aspect, with the exception of gaming controls (no buttons) and no 3D. Given what Apple's providing for only $30 more, I don't think the 3DS going to be able to get away with being a "premium" product once the buzz about 3D dies down.
Apples offering:
A much higher resolution, supposedly you cannot even distinguish the pixels on your screen. There's potential for far better 2D graphics then on the 3DS. Also beneficial for movies, internet browsing, and for use as an ereader.
HD Video Recording in 720p. 3DS has a total of three .03 megapixel cameras, but it can take those low-quality photos in 3D.
Easy interface for online gaming, and older games can be updated to take advantage of it. Hopefully Ninty will come up with a reasonable online interface for the 3DS.
Calculator and notebook comes standard, not for an extra 200 points each. It's a fully functioning PDA right out of the box. I don't see the 3DS with a mail client or a fully functioning calendar that you can input events on directly from said mail client.
8GB internal memory. The one issue is you can't expand it. However, you can keep any extra stuff you buy safe and sound on your computer and transfer it back and forth as you wish. To get that much memory on the 3DS, you'll be shelling out a significant amount of $$$ for 8GB worth of SD cards. (Don't know how much memory it will have, but I'm guessing not 8GB)
I can move all my apps from my older version iTouch or iPhone to the new one, pain free. If other family members have their own iTouch, they can share the apps.
In my opinion there's much more than $30 of extra value there. $50 less seems about right to me. However, what people value is different. For many kids, a lot of these things won't matter. For adults with significant disposable income, it may not matter much either; they can buy both. For those who need to choose, the choice seems pretty clear on which device to skip or at least wait a while to get. If there's plenty of memory and DSiWare transfers, that'd make it worth $200 for me. It's really hard to estimate with price either way right now, seeing as very little is actually confirmed. I'm just basing my estimate on value of other electronics and what seems very "Nintendo" to do. I could easily be wrong.
You're actually making my argument for me, in a way. Bottom line, $40 profit per console is high for hardware. If most of their profits are from software, they don't need to rely on hardware profits. I doubt they'd be loss leading at $180 per 3DS (even if profit wasn't so high), so it's really just a matter of how much demand they think there will be.
According to Dutch online retailer BartSmit.com, the 3DS will launch on March 15, 2011 for 169.95 euros; that's roughly £140 or $200 in American fun bucks.
I wouldn't trust bart smith prices or release time, why not? simple when the 3DS got announced at the e3, they already had those prices up and release date. While not even 1 retailer know about it. a short while after it they removed it.
Some dude on a forum explained he worked there, and said. they have a time window of march, what bart smith does is just placing some random times on it which it will be released as LATEST date, in order to get already some people's attention.
They dont know what the price will be or for what it sells exactly. they just aim on a number which as you read there sides agreements, are under how to call it in english " it can be changed if its incorrect" so you cant lawsuit them for it.
So basicly, both information parts are not true. But just plain "thoughts about it". when it really gets released towards those shops, they will simple alter the information and send people that preordered it ( if possible ) a mail that the prices where wrong etc.
So the bart smith source isn't a vailid source.
I still do think that its possible that nintendo releases it before christmas in europe atleast, and it will cost about the 200 euro, thought the dsi xl 180 euro price. still better logic says, this year release japan, next year release america and at last europe. which give the game makers more time.
@Token Girl You make a very reasonable argument and I don't see Nintendo as a budget or non-premium company. I see them more as a software company because the other big 2 are hardware companies and I'm paying more for a different perspective on games like with epic yarn and Other M. They're not the typica developers and as long as people see them as their niche then Nintendo will survive just fine.
If the 3DS costs $300 people are still going to camp out in front of stores across the world for it and buy it immediately. Why make low profit when you could make more? They had regrets for not charging more for the Wii. I don't see them making that mistake again.
Thanks for the information on the profit margin. R & D costs are surely significant, but there's not much really completely new with the DSi. The OS is a modified version of the Wii's, as is the shop. Surely significant work had to be done to make it fit on the DS, but it's not like they created something out of thin air. The photo/sound editing tools are really the only new things on the console, and they're not breaking any ground. At that sort of margin (plus the higher margin on downloadable game sales), they've easily surpassed the cost of developing the system.
Compared to a $230 8G iTouch, I don't think the 3DS will bring $200 worth of features to the table. However, Ninty has shown how it can print money, so I wouldn't be too surprised if they went for that price. Shoot, I'll probably even buy it for that eventually, seeing as the price won't drop until they release the 3DS Lite (may hold out for that eventuality though).
Nintendo has a set R & D budget, that goes into new console design, experimenting with new technologies, patent development, manufacturing optimisation, software development, so on and so forth. Many R & D projects never see the light of day outside of the labs.
A portion of that R & D budget would be allocated to various projects. That's a real dollar figure - it's not measured in actual physical work hours. Nintendo spends around $US500 million in R & D per year. I would suspect that the total R & D cost that went into the DSi platforms (remember there are two) will actually be equivilant in terms of dollars to what has been spent on the 3DS to date, especially considering there is still R & D work being done on the DSi. It's irrelevant how long it would take to do something. The reality is the cost is in inventing these consoles, modifying existing software to find on the hardware, developing an online structure to account for the nuances of the firmware, and then supporting the console with firmware updates - all of this counts as R & D, and is surprisingly standard.
Without knowing exactly what Nintendo's licensing structure is like - Nintendo does not get a "higher margin" from downloadable sales, either. Nintendo licenses out the right for a developer to make a game for DSiWare. That license is the money Nintendo makes from a game - and it's standard with no actual margin from sales involved.
Of course Nintendo is rolling in profits from the DSi, but it's not coming from the places you suggest - it's not coming from hardware margins, which are pitiful on a cost/ reward basis, and it's not coming from software sale margins. It's coming largely from profit from internally-developed games and licensing to third parties.
That doesn't change for the 3DS, so Nintendo needs to get as many 3DSes into peoples hands as possible so it can charge comparable licensing fee to what it charges for the DS. To do that Nintendo would be willing to make a razor-thin margin or a small loss on 3DS hardware, and I estimate that to be around $200, taking into account components, logistics, marketing and R & D.
its overall known that nintendo makes money on handhelds/consoles devices. Which they openly admit and even aim for. these days its common for other company's like sony/microsoft lose money on the consoles and try to recover that through game sales / extra optional stuff. In order to outdo the other. Nintendo didn't wanted to follow that path, which resulted in lesser graphical games. ( devs where at the first launch of the wii and ds skeptical as we know, about this new approach of nintendo, which nintendo said, they will proof to them how this is the future, and basically made a strong first party game lineup ) as we all know it couldn't work out better for nintendo, there sales are pretty much dominating.
While basically nintendo does gain money from game sales indirect or direct, they do earn a pretty large part if not the largest on the hardware itself, this cant be ignored.
With this fact, it explains why the ign spec hardware (cpu/memory/etc) releases really look like the actually ones that are in it, even while some people are (weirdly) disappointed with it. ( ign know 2 months before the release of any current spec of the wii, already the technical data of it " so those released data from the 3DS have a big chance to be true" )
the big issue's of nintendo and psp should be taken care off as nintendo wanted to release a new handheld, specially with apple beying a new "on some level" rival which should be looked at. . the nintendo issue's pretty much where:
graphical power.
3th party developers stayed hopelessly behind the first party software.
people needed a new experience
screens pixels where just meh.
the PSP problems where pritty much clear:
play time was too short
only downloadable games didn't work ( last version )
the money isn't really in ports, its more in new unique ( exclusive ) titles. Which psp just didn't had really.
design was not functional ( think about the size / screen )
lets not even talk about the horrible load times through using bad game mediums
Dont forget iphone, which gets better and better in mobile gaming, and even surpass the ds / psp on graphical power, add 3DS with that already. The big issue that apply towards the iphone are:
interresting games ( exclusive titles )
no proper controls ( biggest issue )
it cost ALOT more then a handheld ( if not 3-4x more )
has a OS that takes alot of resource, which cannot be located towards games. Still with all these downsizes, it can show better graphical games then the DS and PSP, and basicly got a big touchscreen. Besides the controls, its basicly a ds + psp in one, on some level.
With all this info, you can realise that nintendo needs to throw out a new handheld fast in order to keep up. Now that they know the issue's of every "portable" gaming console there is. They can simple create a new system.
that new system is the 3DS with all his features etc. While it again will not be the most powerfull gaming handheld there is. it has enought "new experience" stuff on it and improvements + most important game development company's behind them in order to take the beating from sony/apple. while it has major advantages over playtime + price.
While everybody at the start of e3 basicly found nintendo on a dying edge, Nobody know how they could compeet with iphone/psp, they suddently stroke back with yet again innovation.
To come back to the point. the 3ds wont cost 200+ euro. I do actually think that its even possible that its gona cost even less then 199 euro, maybe 180.
Well, to me it's pretty clear that smartphones are not the future of handheld gaming...sure a smartphone can have oodles of resources, but it still has to maintain an uplink to the network(s), and constantly run an OS with a suite of essential background processes, therefore, unless you can boot your phone into the game only, you really don't have that much power. Also...in order to play most games, you need the right kind of buttons! I mean, THE iPHONE IS NOT THE FUTURE OF GAMING FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! IT HATH NO BUTTONS! ugh...
Anyway, I do think the 3DS is gunna go for $200...good or bad. I dunno...part of it's just gut feeling, but also I know what Nintendo's done before, and what they're likely to do again. Can't wait!
Well one thing's for sure: Nintendo isn't stupid enough to sell devices at a loss per unit. (Unlike Microsoft and Sony. ) So I expect the price to be reasonable, but nothing particularly low.
If the rumored specs are true, I'd expect a $200 MSRP. Very roughly speaking, those specs put the 3DS at about 4x the power of a $160 DSi and 1/4 the power of a $240 iPod Touch, thus $200, right in the middle, fits it just fine.
Hopefully Wednesday arrives sooner than expected and we find out what kind of price point Nintendo is thinking of.
Wait, the 3DS is going to have less power than the 4G iTouch? What about, say, a 2G iPod? Well, whatever. I'm probably not going to get a 3DS until a little after anyway. Probably getting a PS3 soon.
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id say if gaming is a hobby buy it. most of yall are going to buy it anyways rather on ebay used one day, for cheaper or whatever ive been running into a lot of cheap gamers lately i understand how money is, but by the time some people get done crying about it they could perhaps cut back on other "expenses" like downloading 144 wii ware games...
the_shpydar wrote:
As @ogo79 said, the SNS-RZ-USA is a prime giveaway that it's not a legit retail cart.
And yes, he is (usually) always right, and he is (almost) the sexiest gamer out there (not counting me) ;)
Well one thing's for sure: Nintendo isn't stupid enough to sell devices at a loss per unit. (Unlike Microsoft and Sony. ) So I expect the price to be reasonable, but nothing particularly low.
It's not stupid, and loss leading is a well established and effective business strategy in all kinds of areas - retail being another one - not just games.
Most enterprise tech hardware is sold into organisations on a no-margin or loss leading strategy too, and the money is made back in associated services.
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Topic: 3DS to Cost $200!
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