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Topic: 3DS already failing to live to hype?

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Bankai

61. Posted:

HolyMackerel wrote:

Iwata or Miyamoto, not sure which, already recently acknowledged the Wii and DS's weaknesses in the online department and that they would be working to improve it for the 3DS. No details yet of course, but we can at least expect something better than the travesty that is friend codes.

Seriously, only 64 friends in Clubhouse Games? I maxed that out fast thanks to joining a CHG game club a couple years ago. I had to keep deleting old people to add new ones. Terrible system.

The problem is that the 3DS is now close enough to release that Nintendo won't be making any more massive announcements about functionality and.... well there's nothing to indicate the online is really any better than what we've previously seen.

There will still be download limits - the 3DS doesn't have enough internal memory, and a 2GB SD card is an indication that Nintendo considers that enough... this is something the PSP flogs Nintendo at, and they should have fixed that one.

The 3DS is still incapable of "talking" with any other non-3DS device in any meaningful way. Considering Apple, Sony and Microsoft (via Windows Phone 7) have an integrated online service that talks to other devices/ PCs people have at home, this is lagging.

There's no indication of achievements, online leaderboards or any of the other fun stuff that people have now come to expect from their consoles... and whether individuals care for them or not is irrelevant - they've become important features to support.

There's no indication that the online experience will be for anything more than online games and digital downloads. The cool thing about the PS3 is that the online service also includes social (Home), media (Mubi, Netflix, catch-up TV, Vidzone), avatars, backgrounds, demos and Facebook connectivity. The digital downloads and online play are relatively small parts of the overall pie.

Nintendo is limited in its ability to do a lot of that because, unlike the Sonys and Microsofts of the world, Nintendo is a focused company, of couse.

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Subtle

62. Posted:

"The problem is that the 3DS is now close enough to release that Nintendo won't be making any more massive announcements about functionality and.... well there's nothing to indicate the online is really any better than what we've previously seen."

Hm, alot can happen in 4-6 months. You'd be suprised.
"There will still be download limits - the 3DS doesn't have enough internal memory, and a 2GB SD card is an indication that Nintendo considers that enough... this is something the PSP flogs Nintendo at, and they should have fixed that one."

You assume without knowing anything, but yeah I agree. I'm worried about this one.

"The 3DS is still incapable of "talking" with any other non-3DS device in any meaningful way. Considering Apple, Sony and Microsoft (via Windows Phone 7) have an integrated online service that talks to other devices/ PCs people have at home, this is lagging."

Tbh, I don't really care. I'd be happy if I could talk with other 3DSers. Talking to people with other devices isn't all that necessary to me.

"There's no indication of achievements, online leaderboards or any of the other fun stuff that people have now come to expect from their consoles... and whether individuals care for them or not is irrelevant - they've become important features to support."

Lol. You assume this once again. I personally don't care if they're there or not. They don't enhance gameplay in anyway. It's only a good feature for completionist.

"There's no indication that the online experience will be for anything more than online games and digital downloads. The cool thing about the PS3 is that the online service also includes social (Home), media (Mubi, Netflix, catch-up TV, Vidzone), avatars, backgrounds, demos and Facebook connectivity. The digital downloads and online play are relatively small parts of the overall pie."

They haven't said no, they haven't said yes.

"Nintendo is limited in its ability to do a lot of that because, unlike the Sonys and Microsofts of the world, Nintendo is a focused company, of couse."

You're right.

It's funny that since Nintendo have dropped the ball twice people assume there is no more revival.

Edited on by Subtle

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Bankai

63. Posted:

Hm, alot can happen in 4-6 months. You'd be suprised.

If it was the kind of feature that would turn Nintendo's online fortunes around, they would have announced it as a major feature already. Companies do not do the massive surprise reveal in the modern environment - the big features are announced up front.

You assume without knowing anything, but yeah I agree. I'm worried about this one.

This is my analysis based on the news that has been out there, and what I myself has seen/ heard from Nintendo.

Tbh, I don't really care. I'd be happy if I could talk with other 3DSers. Talking to people with other devices isn't all that necessary to me.

Tbh, it doesn't matter what is necessary for you or not. There's a reason all the other companies in the world are looking an interconnectedness. Nintendo can't, I get that, but that doesn't mean it's not a problem.

Lol. You assume this once again. I personally don't care if they're there or not. They don't enhance gameplay in anyway. It's only a good feature for completionist.

It doesn't matter what you personally think. Achievements are successful on a host of other platforms (Steam, Apple, PS3, Xbox), so clearly the masses want them, enjoy them, or tolerate them enough so they still buy the consoles and games.

This is not personal opinion. This is the trends that the gaming industry is following, and Nintendo appears to be deliberately snubbing them. It might work, or just as possibly, Nintendo might crash and burn.

They haven't said no, they haven't said yes.

Again, Nintendo would have been forward with major features such as these.

It's funny that since Nintendo have dropped the ball twice people assume there is no more revival.

Actually, I had every confidence that Nintendo could get it right this time around, but it seems that Nintendo has not invested in the R & D it actually needed to, other than coming up with a 3D effect that may or may not end up being a gimmick.

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irken004

64. Posted:

Sounds like Waltz isn't respecting user's opinions...

WaltzElf wrote:

Lol. You assume this once again. I personally don't care if they're there or not. They don't enhance gameplay in anyway. It's only a good feature for completionist.

It doesn't matter what you personally think.

Edited on by irken004

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CanisWolfred

65. Posted:

WaltzElf wrote:

If it was the kind of feature that would turn Nintendo's online fortunes around, they would have announced it as a major feature already. Companies do not do the massive surprise reveal in the modern environment - the big features are announced up front.

WaltzElf wrote:

This is not personal opinion. This is the trends that the gaming industry is following, and Nintendo appears to be deliberately snubbing them. It might work, or just as possibly, Nintendo might crash and burn.

These are two very important points and the reasons why I'm concerned. Nintendo has no reason to keep online features a secret unless they don't expect them to be a prominent feature, meaning its probably not getting the attention it deserves. Nintendo's chronic refusal to understand and follow the trends of modern gaming is also a good indication of that, and something that I think will hurt Nintendo in the long run. Quality online features are becoming too important to just blatantly ignore or put in half-hearted attempts. Even my brother won't play his DS because there are no good online games, unlike his PSP. Really, I hope Nintendo really is just trying to work out some bugs so they can show it off some time before release, because at this point it looks as if they're going to drop the ball again.

irken004 wrote:

Sounds like Waltz isn't respecting user's opinions...

WaltzElf wrote:

Lol. You assume this once again. I personally don't care if they're there or not. They don't enhance gameplay in anyway. It's only a good feature for completionist.

It doesn't matter what you personally think.

One man's opinion is not that of the mass', and that's what's important in this case. I personally don't care about achievements, yet I know they're a selling point for a TON of other people, and I think it would be a huge boost to Nintendo if they actually put it in. I mean, how could it possibly hurt them?! It just seems silly for them to not include some form of achievement system, and I think even they understand that when some of their own games include achievements (Metroid Prime 3, anyone?)

Edited on by CanisWolfred

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HolyMackerel

66. Posted:

Legitimate points, but there are a few things people haven't considered.

I'm suspecting Nintendo is currently thinking Japan-centric with the 3DS. The StreetPass concept is awesome and revolutionary in theory, but in practice it will only work in highly populated areas. Tokyo in particular has a high density of gamers which is why the system is perfectly designed for Japan. I'm certain the 3DS will do well, but it will only end up a big success in Japan if they rely only on local connectivity.

The international market is the reason online connectivity is important. I truly hope that they reveal a solid online system in the coming months. The online system is one of the last points for them to consider since it's a user interface/security deal and the details need to be strenuously thought out and tested before being finalised. I can understand why they haven't announced anything about it, but the clock is ticking.

SpotPass (the charging cradle connectivity), on the other hand, has barely been focused on at all, but deserves a mention:

Linked NintendoLife article wrote:

SpotPass allows the 3DS to seek out new information simply by being in Sleep Mode near a WiFi hotspot. In fact, Sleep Mode activates SpotPass and StreetPass simultaneously, so even whilst the machine is searching for online data it can be interacting with local consoles too.

Nintendo gave various examples of the kind of data that will be downloaded, including rankings, ghost data, notifications and new free software.

If the details are sound, then that system may end up being (part of) the saving grace of the 3DS. It sounds great, but remember that SpotPass is only active while in sleep mode. They need to announce how their online system is going to work when the system is active and also during pay.

WaltzElf wrote:

The 3DS is still incapable of "talking" with any other non-3DS device in any meaningful way. Considering Apple, Sony and Microsoft (via Windows Phone 7) have an integrated online service that talks to other devices/ PCs people have at home, this is lagging.

The 3DS doesn't need to and should not "talk" to other types of devices at all. That is peripheral functionality used by multimedia devices. The 3DS is not such a device and is not intended to compete in that arena. Taking WaltzElf's point to its conclusion: Nintendo will fail if it competes head-on with Apple, Sony and Microsoft in their own field. It would be silly to introduce another multimedia device into an already-saturated market with clearly high-stakes competition. Nintendo's niche has always been gaming and expanding their systems beyond that in any significant manner is costly and risky.

WaltzElf wrote:

There will still be download limits - the 3DS doesn't have enough internal memory, and a 2GB SD card is an indication that Nintendo considers that enough... this is something the PSP flogs Nintendo at, and they should have fixed that one.

Er... the PSP has 4MB internal memory for settings. The PSP Go has 16GB internal memory. PSP-compatible Sony memory sticks are 32GB maximum, same as SDHC cards. The free packaged 2GB option is there to encourage users to make use of the online store (consider that the Wii and DSi had SD card functionality but did not focus on it enough) - not to be the be-all and end-all of data storage for the device. Anyone who downloads past that limit will already be aware that the system uses SD cards and will go buy a bigger one. For an essentially free packaged card, 2GB is a respectable size.

Nintendo including the SD card is already a sign that they are focusing more on their online service.

I personally think this is won't be an issue for the 3DS. People have been vocal enough about this for both the Wii and the DSi that Nintendo will respond. The internal memory capacity has not yet been revealed, but it's obviously not unlimited so of course "there will still be download limits". That said, I expect it to be sizeable - but to rely mostly on SD cards.

SD cards are a smart way of lowering initial costs for the handheld while allowing users to expand the memory to whatever size they wish. If you have more than 32GB worth of games... which happens to be a truckload of space (Blu-rays are 25GB single layer), then you can always use another SD card. These things are tiny and can be carried around easily, making them perfect for a handheld device. Games and data can be read directly from the card, making it essentially the same as internal memory when inserted. I think this they've thought this through very well.

Edited on by HolyMackerel

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Bankai

67. Posted:

Irken, what I meant by that is "it doesn't matter what you personally enjoy when it comes to making a business decision that will affect all people using a product."

Simple example - I have no interest in eating seafood. does that mean it's smart for a fish and chips shop to stop selling the fish? No, a business is there to appeal to more than one person's opinions.

@HolyMackerel - my concern with Nintendo sticking to this singular focus is that it's becoming difficult to be successful that way. I'm not saying they will fail (Kindle is doing just fine in the ebook market even with the iPad out there), but the market is definitely trending towards converged multimedia (again, whether some people on this forum care for that or not).

The way I see it, if Nintendo does want to be a singularly focused company, then it needs to produce a gaming console that offers the very best gaming experience.

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HolyMackerel

68. Posted:

@WaltzElf With its stereoscopic screen, touch input, high quality graphics and processing, stereo cameras, gyrometer, StreetPass, SpotPass, 3DSWare, Virtual Handheld, backwards compatibility with the DS library, there's a lot going for the 3DS being the very best gaming experience. Certainly something no other current portable device could achieve, at least. It also has the largest line-up of initial release games of any gaming device in history. IMO if Nintendo can succeed in doing that, it will be more valuable than another convergent device.

EDIT

Since this thread was closed, I'll make a reply to WaltzElf's later post here.

WaltzElf wrote:

How do you know how much internal memory the 3DS has?

Little enough that they need to throw in a 2GB SD card in each 3DS box.

You didn't read my above post at all. You are totally jumping to conclusions on this point. The 3DS could have 64GB of internal flash memory, 4 times the amount of the PSP Go, and it would still be smart for them to include a 2GB SD card. Why? They need to show consumers (and especially casual consumers) that the 3DS can use SD cards to expand its storage capacity. This is important so that people will not complain about its storage being maxed out. The SD card, like the Sony Memory Sticks for the PSP, essentially give the 3DS unlimited storage space thanks to the fact you can swap them in and out.

2GB is a respectable size and cheap enough that they can include it for free. The SD card is free and packaged with every 3DS. It's there to let people know about SD card functionality. People have easy access to larger SD cards should the need arise. The SD card is needed for the online store, regardless of the device's internal memory. Ergo, Nintendo is focusing on their online store far more than before.

Assuming Nintendo thinks 2GB is "enough" is jumping to conclusions. You're always talking about games being a business and this is exactly one point where this applies. The cost of a 32GB SD card is far higher than a 2GB one so including that would be a ridiculous cost that raises initial prices much higher than people would accept. People are already wary of the device's price at the projected $250-$300 range. You can't really think it would be good business sense to raise that price with storage that some consumers won't end up using fully, right? The 2GB card is an entry point, and only an entry point, to raise awareness of its new functionality. At least you have 2GB extra for free. If you're too cheap to buy your own SD card then you'll have to deal with that yourself.

Edited on by HolyMackerel

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Hardy83

69. Posted:

Did I say this in this post? No somewhere else. lol

Nintendo cares about Japan first. They've never cared about EU or NA first. Sure a game might release in America first, but all hardware decisions are made with Japan in mind, not America.
Street pass WILL be a failure over here in NA. There won't be enough people walking around with the devices. Logistically the area of NA is just too big for that to happen. Maybe in schools and gamestops but not anywhere else.
Streetpass is feature FOR Japanese. A highly dense and multi-device carrying group of people.

And yes, the 3DS does have a lot going for it, but my skepticism for online seems all but true. It'll be no where near as good as PSN, XBL or even the App stores online abilities. It wont' sway any people over who've been turned off by the DS's lack of online functionality. NA people in particular because most of us are use to always online smartphones or better connectivity with an Ipod Touch or PSN with the PSP.

Now, we ALL know it'll still sell like mad and we all know we'll all probably buy a 3DS right away or after the first price drop in probably.... 6 months, but I don't think it'll break the online mold that everyone wants it to. Which makes my fears of Nintendo's next console system and less optimistic.
3D is one thing, but it won't fix the issues Nintendo's had for over 10 years with their philosophies.

I could be wrong and I hope I'm wrong.

Hardy83

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theblackdragon

70. Posted:

WaltzElf wrote:

This is my analysis based on the news that has been out there, and what I myself has seen/ heard from Nintendo.

I think this is the key (lack of?) point to this thread -- It can't fail to live up to anything if it hasn't even been released yet. We don't have all the facts. No one has a 3DS in their hot little hands to mess around with and figure out for sure. Nintendo has months to write the software it needs to cover every single doubt and fear expressed in this thread, and even longer if you consider the fact that, just like the DSi, the console (and its apps) will likely be updateable. Just because we haven't heard much yet about how the promised online revamp will affect the 3DS doesn't mean said revamp is not happening.

Edited on by theblackdragon

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WaLzgi

71. Posted:

@Waltz: I love how you are making up some BS facts about the 3DS considering Nintendo never announced some of the stuff you mentioned. How do you know how much internal memory the 3DS has? How do you know how "good" the online is? This is not an analysis but a pointless rant over nothing factual

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Bankai

72. Posted:

How do you know how much internal memory the 3DS has?

Little enough that they need to throw in a 2GB SD card in each 3DS box.

How do you know how "good" the online is?

I watched those videos and read the reports from Nintendo.

We don't have all the facts. No one has a 3DS in their hot little hands to mess around with and figure out for sure.

My initial point was that we can't be sure if Nintendo is even living up to what it has announced. It made a point of 3D movies at its E3 campaign. Go back and have a look. Now we're not sure that's happening after all.

Nintendo has months to write the software it needs to cover every single doubt and fear expressed in this thread

No it doesn't. At this stage in the production cycle, most major features would be set in stone. There's not a lot of time left to make changes if Nintendo wants to hit the deadlines its claiming it will.

and even longer if you consider the fact that, just like the DSi, the console (and its apps) will likely be updateable.

I'm certain this will happen, and it should in this day and age. But we're talking about the out of the box experience here. The original PlayStation 3 had a horrible out of the box experience too, which is why many of us waited for the updates (and new, improved model release) to join in.

Just because we haven't heard much yet about how the promised online revamp will affect the 3DS doesn't mean said revamp is not happening.

So... Nintendo goes "hey guys we know our last consoles' online sucked, so we're gonna fix that."
The fans go "How, Mr. Nintendo Man?"
Nintendo "Shhh, it's a secret, you'll find out when you buy it, but it's fixed, we promise!"

That flies completely in the face of good marketing practice. Good branding practice is, if something's gone with a product, and you fix it in the next version of that product, you are open with your customers about how it's been fixed. Of course, Nintendo is no stranger to doing business... unconventionally, so I'm not saying for sure that's not going to happen, but it's unlikely.

Edited on by Bankai

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CanisWolfred

73. Posted:

@WaltzElf

What say we hold off at least until January before continuing this discussion. While 3 months from launch is still dangerously close to the production phase, it is still possible that the 3DS is still in the development phase and they're still trying to work out the qurks before showing off features like 3D movies and extensive online features. They want to make sure it works so they don't have buggy pre-production products scaring people away from buying the final product. (like what happened with Kinect) If nothing's said by January (1 mont from the Japanese launch), though, not even by NOA, then I think we all have every right to worry. The 3DS should be in manufacturing and distribution stage by then.

Edited on by CanisWolfred

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irken004

74. Posted:

Anyone else feel ready that this thread should be locked?

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theblackdragon

75. Posted:

@Waltz: regarding the movies, you're not sure if it's happening or not because you knee-jerk every time someone writes an article on the internet. you jumped the gun with that thread and you're jumping it now -- even you're admitting that you're not sure whether what you're saying is how things are gonna go down, so why not relax and wait for the system to come out before you start up with this kind of thread?

the bottom line is that nothing is set in stone, and no one knows for sure if they're actually not going to be able to deliver. let's let things lie for now and come back to it when it's released and we know for sure how everything is playing out.

Edited on by theblackdragon

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